762: Show Up Better, Faster, with Claude Silver

Dave Stachowiak [00:00:00]:
We’ve all heard the advice to be ourselves at work. It’s easier said than done in this episode how we can actually move past some of that unhelpful self talk so that we can show up better, faster. This is Coaching for Leaders, episode 762. Production Credit: Produced by Innovate Learning, maximizing human potential.

Dave Stachowiak [00:00:28]:
Greetings to you from Orange County, California. This is Coach for Leaders and I’m your host, Dave Stachowiak. Leaders aren’t born, they’re made. And this weekly show helps you discover leadership wisdom through insightful conversations. One of the messages that I often hear from many folks who have inspired me over the years and I try to pass along to others whenever possible is two words, show up. And if we can, show up a little bit faster, a little bit better than before. Today, a wonderful inivitation for all of us to do that in a way that is genuine, in a way that helps us lead ourselves better so that we can do so much better for our teams and organizations. And I am so pleased to welcome someone who is going to help take us on that journey.

Dave Stachowiak [00:01:23]:
I’m pleased to introduce Claude Silver. She is on a mission to revolutionize leadership, talent, and workplace culture. Claude is Chief Heart Officer at VaynerX and partners with CEO Gary Vaynerchuk to drive their success. She earned Campaign US’s Female Frontier Award and AdWeek’s Changing the Game Award. And she’s the author of the new book Be Yourself at Work: The Groundbreaking Power of Showing Up, Standing Out, and Leading from the Heart. Claude, it’s such a pleasure to meet you. How are you?

Claude Silver [00:01:55]:
Dave, thank you so much for having me. I’m so excited to be here and I am great.

Dave Stachowiak [00:02:01]:
I have been thinking about your book all week, of course, knowing we were gonna have this conversation and I have a bit of a problem right now because I have a song in my head that I cannot get rid of because Taylor Swift came out with a new album not long ago. And while I am not a Swiftie myself, although I enjoy some of her music, our 11 year old daughter is. And so every time we’re on the road we are listening to the new album. And it’s really interesting to me that even though I don’t particularly like, there’s not a particular song that I’m passionate about or really love, I have found myself, I don’t know, three or four times in the last week, like humming one of the songs to myself by just being exposed to it and being around it. I’ve got it and I get it out of my head. Can you help me, please?

Claude Silver [00:02:52]:
Well, what song is it? First, let’s hear what it is.

Dave Stachowiak [00:02:55]:
Oh, gosh, it’s the Ophelia song.

Claude Silver [00:02:58]:
Oh, God, I’m. I cannot stop singing that song myself. That is, I have to tell you, Dave, I. So I have a seven year old and a four year old, two daughters.

Dave Stachowiak [00:03:09]:
Okay.

Claude Silver [00:03:10]:
And I cannot get past the third song. We just continue to rewind those first three. And the first one is so good and dancy. Love it.

Dave Stachowiak [00:03:21]:
Yeah. Yeah, it’s so funny. The reason I’m thinking about this is just how quickly things get in our heads. And you write on this in the book, “you have a song in your head too. Maybe even a whole playlist. If you just take a moment to listen. That music can drag you down, hold you back and keep you small and scared. But it can also lift you up and fill you with courage, energy and enthusiasm.”

Dave Stachowiak [00:03:49]:
And I think about just getting a song in our heads. And there’s the fun, playful. We’re listening to the popular album that came out. And then there’s the real serious, the song that we get in our heads, good or bad, that shows up and influences how we show up our relationships with people and how we think about ourselves. It is super powerful, isn’t it?

Claude Silver [00:04:10]:
Yes, absolutely is. And it’s something that we’re most of the time not present to until we are. And I think that’s one of the big realizations for me. And as I talk about in the book, when I was on this Outward Bound journey and I was really just, if I can say, just wanting, I just wanted to break my leg. I just wanted to break my ankle. I didn’t want to be there. It was day one and when that instructor came down and saw me in my yellow rain slicker and I was crying and crying and crying and it was snowing and all of the above. And she said to me, what’s going on in your head? When I said to her, well, yeah, I’m singing this song by Nine Inch Nails. Head like a hole, black is your soul. I’d rather die than give you control. And she said to me you better get another song in your head. It was the first time I actually literally put those two things together that they’re actually connected.

Claude Silver [00:04:56]:
And the funny thing is, Dave, she probably was asking me, what’s going on in your head? Like, are you full of self doubt? Are you? You know, she probably expected something much different than what I gave her, which is, hilarious, if I think back on it. But it was a real, very, very big wake up call for me. I’ll say the first of many that have happened throughout my life, but I would say that was probably the first.

Dave Stachowiak [00:05:36]:
There’s a chapter in your book titled Labels are for Soup Cans, not People. And it’s a conversation with the reader about the labels that we tend to put on ourselves. And I thought, before we get into maybe some of those labels and how we may shift them, I’m curious what’s maybe us exploring some of the labels we’ve put on ourselves over time. When you think about this, what’s a label you’ve put on yourself that held you back?

Claude Silver [00:06:10]:
Oh, my goodness. I had the label of quote, unquote, I am dumb. I am dumb for a very, very long time. Too long. And that label came from some childhood experiences with dyslexia. Now it’s a superpower. But my academics was very, very difficult for me from a very young age. In fact, you know, spelling and all of that stuff.

Claude Silver [00:06:39]:
And so I took all of what I was seeing, feeling, and probably the extra help I was getting from tutors and whatnot and concocted a story that I am dumb. That I was dumb. And when I tell you I had that Until I was 35, I’m not joking. I had that lie in my head until I was 35, which prevented me from going after opportunities and creating options for myself.

Dave Stachowiak [00:07:14]:
It’s a powerful lie because it held back so many things that you might have done sooner, differently, earlier in your career, but also in your life.

Claude Silver [00:07:24]:
Yeah. Oh, my gosh.

Claude Silver [00:07:26]:
My parents said to me, Claude, you haven’t set up any options for yourself. And I think back to that time, well, I didn’t set up any options because I didn’t think I was worthy of that. I didn’t think that a dumb person got to get options in life, got to make options. I mean, it sounds so silly now, but it’s not the lies we tell ourselves. That negative voice that goes around and around and around, on repeat, on repeat, on repeat is so powerful.

Dave Stachowiak [00:07:57]:
Clearly, something shifted at some point based on where you are today. You writing this book, the work that you’re doing, the stories you tell about your personal life and your family. What is it that changed?

Claude Silver [00:08:09]:
Well, I will say I did finally find a very, very good therapist to go to when I was about 35 years old and I was going through a big breakup in my life. So there was like, it was a watershed moment. It was kind of like a Time in my life where it was really time to get rid of some stuff. Little did I know that that lie in my head was one of the biggest things that was holding me back. I didn’t know that. I just thought I was dumb. It wasn’t like. It wasn’t like a billboard saying, Dave, if you let go of this, you’re going to be free.

Claude Silver [00:08:49]:
Right. I didn’t know that. And we did a lot of it was a somatic therapist. So that’s a lot of work in terms of how energy and emotions are stored in the body. And I. Gosh, I saw her for quite a bit, quite a bit of time, I would say probably four years off and on. And there was a lot of tapping, a lot of tapping exercises that we did. And at some point it just came out that I felt unworthy.

Claude Silver [00:09:19]:
Unworthy of options or opportunities or love or fill in the blank. Right. This is unfortunately a feeling that many people have. And so once that came out, we were able to unpack the genesis of that. Where did that come from? I mean, I wasn’t born like that. And lo and behold, one thing led to the other and we went back to being in second grade and having to be tutored already and being in a sophomore in high school and my biology teacher telling the class I was getting an F, taking the SATs three times untimed and still getting a 1040. Those things add up. And so.

Claude Silver [00:10:01]:
But we had to go and uncover all of that. Like an archeologist.

Dave Stachowiak [00:10:05]:
Yeah. Thank you for sharing that, first of all. And it’s so interesting, looking back, how it’s so much easier to see some of these lies we’ve told ourselves. And as I was thinking about what you were saying and reading the book, I was thinking, like, one of the lies I told myself early on in my life is I am shy.

Dave Stachowiak [00:10:24]:
And like you, it’s interesting. Now, I think about the. What I would say today is more introversion. And I think about it as a superpower and use it as a superpower. But it was. I had this label of being shy. And it was something that held me back from relationships, from being more successful in doing things, extracurricular in school and friendships and all of that probably until like my late teens, early 20s. And it wasn’t until I really sort of confronted that lie, which it was a lie, and shifted it in a way that helped it to work better for me and actually change that narrative. I wouldn’t be doing this show today, I wouldn’t be doing anything I am doing today if it hadn’t been for me really looking at it and shifting it.

Claude Silver [00:11:14]:
Yeah, well, I actually, I. I love that A) That was your limiting belief. That was your lie. And here you are.

Claude Silver [00:11:25]:
On a podcast. I mean, here you are certainly not shy. You are hosting a podcast that goes out to thousands of people and showing up each and every hour that you do this. And I think that is remarkable. I really, really do. So I want to just say super kudos to you for going through that journey, because it is a journey, right?

Dave Stachowiak [00:11:50]:
It is.

Claude Silver [00:11:51]:
I love how you landed on introversion, because that is so valid. I say that I am a situational extrovert, right? Because at work and when I’m on stage and all of that stuff, that’s extroversion. But that’s because of the situation I’m in. I prefer to be probably quiet a lot of the times, and I get to be quiet on my commute to and from work, which is really special to me. That’s where I kind of get to either prepare for my day or recharge from the day.

Dave Stachowiak [00:12:25]:
One of the things that I. One of the reasons I was so excited to talk to you is like, you and I have both, in different ways, struggled with the lies and the labels. And. And we all, of course, still do. And I think that that’s actually so common, like so many of us do struggle with our own labels. And what I know we can invite folks to do conversation is maybe take a few steps on how to start thinking about that and changing a little bit of that label. And I’m so glad that you mentioned therapy, Claude, because there is no substitute for getting the support from a good therapist or counselor to work through things if you have a label that you are finding is not working for you and is holding you back and you’re not able to change it. And in addition to that, my hope is we can help maybe folks just to take a first step today of thinking like, okay, here’s the label I have and what might I do to start shifting that just a bit? And part of the invitation I hear from you and your work is just to stop treating the negative self talk as gospel.

Dave Stachowiak [00:13:34]:
And so often we just. We hear the self talk and we don’t even think of a different way to think about it.

Claude Silver [00:13:40]:
Well, I mean, that is it. And one of the things that. Well, it’s not one of the things. The thing I really am talking about in the book, especially in the first part, which is all about the you. Right? It’s who are you? You are the CEO of your life. But what’s stopping you, right? And what is so apparent is that unless we are present, we don’t hear that voice that much, right? We just know it’s there. Something is holding us back, something is shrinking us. Something is, is permitting us to not speak out, not share ideas, not fill in the blank.

Claude Silver [00:14:16]:
And it’s only when you are able to either work with a friend, a therapist, whomever, a me, a coach, and that person says, what are you telling yourself right now? Just like that instructor said to me on Outward Bound, what is going on in your head? And so when I’m able to say, and hopefully you’ll find this in the book as well, when you are reading those words that I’m writing, what you’re saying, what is the song in your head? What are you telling yourself right now? You need to get still, you need to get quiet. And then guess what? You will hear that voice. Because the voice is so loud, we just garble it up with all kinds of other junk right throughout our day so we can get through. But once you hear that, then it’s going to be something of, I am shy, I am dumb, I’m not worthy of love, no one wants me on their team, I never get picked, those types of things. So when you can actually hear that, and what I ask people to do is write that down. Whatever that is, I am dumb. Write that down. Then what I want everyone to do is try to find the evidence that it’s true.

Dave Stachowiak [00:15:35]:
So step one, identify it, get it down before you even are thinking about the like, is this true? Is it not? Whatever. But just what’s the voice that’s happening? What’s the song in the head? To come back to that analogy, right? What’s the song that I keep hearing? Write that down, identify that. And if you get that down, then you are, you’re confronting it, right?

Claude Silver [00:15:57]:
Yeah. Well, you are confirming it. It’s coming out of your head, right? It’s coming out of your head.

Dave Stachowiak [00:16:04]:
Yeah.

Claude Silver [00:16:05]:
And so only you, only you know that that’s what’s going on in your head, right? I can’t say, oh, actually I heard something else show up. And then what I want people to do is try to find the evidence of that being true. So it could also be, I’m, I’m not a good mom and I’m not, I’m not a good co parent. I never have time, right. Or I seem to always prioritize my work and I’m not able to prioritize my children or my partner or whatever. Those are things that are going to be loud, and then you want to figure out, is that true? So for me, let’s take me, I am dumb. Put that out on a piece of paper in one column. I am dumb.

Claude Silver [00:16:48]:
All right, let me see if I can find the evidence. Dave, I work for Gary Vaynerchuk. No, he wouldn’t hire me if I was dumb. I’ve been at VaynerMedia for 11 years, and before that, I’ve always been employed. Okay. No, I’m not dumb there. People seem to want to talk to me. Okay, I’m not dumb there.

Claude Silver [00:17:10]:
So you have to, you know, find the. I can’t find any evidence. Right. I’m not 18, 17. I didn’t just take the SAT scores. I’m now I’m present. So, no, there is no evidence that I can find that I am dumb. All right, if that is the truth, there is no evidence, then what is true? What am I going to replace that slogan with? Because once I take it out of my brain, you know, you got to put something back in there, or else it’s going to siphon that lie back.

Dave Stachowiak [00:17:46]:
Yeah.

Claude Silver [00:17:47]:
You know what I mean?

Dave Stachowiak [00:17:48]:
Yeah. So then the idea is. Okay, well, then what is true? Okay, this is something that’s very true. I am a different kind of learner. That is true. I already told you, I’m dyslexic. And I know I learn very differently. I am a person who is extremely emotionally intelligent, and I’ve had to work to be more analytically intelligent. That is true.

Claude Silver [00:17:48]:
So then the idea is. Okay, well, then what is true? Okay, this is something that’s very true. I am a different kind of learner. That is true. I already told you, I’m dyslexic. And I know I learn very differently. I am a person who is extremely emotionally intelligent, and I’ve had to work to be more analytically intelligent. That is true.

Claude Silver [00:18:13]:
So now I’m trying to find things that are true, but that also, they light me up in some way, shape or form. Right. To say to me, for me. To say to me, well, Claude, you’re not dumb. You just learn in different ways. Like, that’s exciting to me. You can even hear it in my voice. So that’s where we need to get to.

Dave Stachowiak [00:18:35]:
So identify the label, find the evidence. The evidence that confirms or the evidence that doesn’t, as you just demonstrated. And then this is, by the way, an acronym. It’s one of the reasons I. I love this framework. In the book, the acronym is lie, label, internal evidence. And then the third part is evolve. What’s the evolve step sound like?

Claude Silver [00:19:02]:
So the evolve is what we just did because we went through the evidence, right? Yeah. And the evolve is. Now I’m going to use the new phrase, I’m a different kind of learner. I’m an emotionally intelligent person. I gotta pick one of those, right? And whichever one I use, I need to make it a mantra. I need to put it on my laptop. I need to put it in my phone. I need to put it up on a sticky note on my bathroom mirror.

Claude Silver [00:19:34]:
I need to put it places so that that lie cannot come out again. I need to make sure I have a way to continuously feed my brain the truth. And so I said, okay, we’ll put it in a mantra. I also say put it to a song. Whatever it is. You can do it to Billie Jean or you can do it to a Stone Temple pilot song. It doesn’t matter to me as long as it makes sense to you.

Dave Stachowiak [00:20:03]:
Yeah.

Claude Silver [00:20:04]:
And that’s the evolve. That’s the. Oh, my God. Okay, this is going to work because I’m going to say it repetitively. Repetitively, repetitively. And it’s going to work. So that’s what the evolution is.

Dave Stachowiak [00:20:20]:
I love it. Label, internal evidence, and then evolve it. Okay, so I’m curious about a couple things. First is that first step, the label. You and I can both see really clearly now. Like what you said. I’m dumb, Me saying I’m shy. Looking back, like, it’s really clear.

Dave Stachowiak [00:20:37]:
Like, oh, gosh, that was a label. That was a lie all those years. And sometimes when we’re in the middle of it, like if I went back 20, 30 years and was in the middle of it, sometimes we’re so much in the middle of our own labels that we don’t even see them. It’s like the fish in water of asking about water. They wouldn’t know any difference because they’ve had the label so long. How do you see it when you’re so painted by the label that maybe you don’t even think about another alternative?

Claude Silver [00:21:07]:
This is where I don’t think it’s something to do alone. I really, really don’t. Unless you’re pretty certain you know the label. And then you can do that list that I’m talking about. One column to see if you’ve got the evidence that the lie is true, and then the next column to get the real truth. But it’s hard. Like I said, I had to go to. You know, I went to therapy to understand why was I repeating the same patterns over and over and over again when I.

Claude Silver [00:21:36]:
I knew what was better for me, right? I knew. I knew, but I was. I was like a magnet. I was attracted to things that weren’t healthy for me. But I had to work with someone because I didn’t want to be in that pain anymore. I really didn’t. And so if you’re doing this alone, which is totally fine, I would just ask that you really, really try to get into some kind of still state or a state when you’re really agitated. So either get real still or find when you’re really agitated and frustrated, what are you telling yourself aside from that person’s a bozo? You’re probably saying something negative about yourself.

Claude Silver [00:22:22]:
Capture that. Capture whatever it is, write it down, and then once you calm down, see if it’s true. Does that fit? Am I, you know, are you just a frustrated, angry person, whatever that is? Then I need you to write it down and really simmer with it. Really, really see if it’s true for you.

Dave Stachowiak [00:22:43]:
My friend Tom Henschel has a really beautiful analogy of painting difference between coaching and therapy and a lot of us as coaches. He says, you know, if you’re. If you’re driving along the road and you see a pothole and you can drive around it, like, that’s. That’s a great thing to do, right? And that. And that’s what coaching is. He does this much better than I’m doing it. But he also says, like, if you’re driving along and you keep running into the exact same pothole day after day after day, then it makes sense to stop and patch the pothole.

Dave Stachowiak [00:23:15]:
And that’s therapy. That’s where working with a therapist would be really helpful. And the reason I’m thinking about this, because something really important you said a moment ago that I think is, like, so key on this is, like, I keep seeing the same pattern. I keep seeing the same thing coming up that I know isn’t working for me. And yet it’s like I keep hitting the same pothole. And I think, like, that’s a really powerful indicator that either it’s time to do something, like you said of sitting down when you’re really still or agitated and really, really pay attention to that, or to, like, work with someone who can help support you in doing that. Like, that’s a great way to start to begin to emerge that label, because that’s a sign that there’s something there that just isn’t working for you.

Claude Silver [00:23:53]:
That’s exactly right. That’s exactly right. And whether or not it’s you figuring this out, a therapist, a coach, it doesn’t matter. But you want to figure it out. I don’t want anyone at 35 figuring it out if we can help it. Yeah, I. I don’t because.

Claude Silver [00:24:13]:
You know, yes, I had a great life, you know, up until I was 35, but also I did things that were very self sabotaging and I missed out on opportunities that, you know, I can look back and tell you what I missed out on. And it’s not regret, not anymore. But it, it did make me sad there for a while because, you know, I’m better than that. I’m better than telling myself I’m dumb. You’re better than telling yourself you’re shy. When we put those labels on ourselves, they are powerful. They are powerful, powerful labels that take.

Claude Silver [00:24:49]:
They take some elbow grease to get off.

Dave Stachowiak [00:24:53]:
Very few things in life are pure, either ors, right? Like usually there’s some mix of a Both and, and when you, when you’re at that step of the evidence of writing down, like, okay, where is this true? Like, where am I dumb? Where am I shy? You writing those things down, but you’re also writing down the. Where is this not true? When you run into a situation where you’re writing stuff down and you can’t find the counter narrative, you can’t find as many of the. Maybe there’s like 10 of the confirmations and there’s one or two that is the different narrative. What do you do in that situation if it, if the evidence seems overwhelming to you on the other side?

Claude Silver [00:25:32]:
You mean if the evidence to the lie actually seems true?

Dave Stachowiak [00:25:36]:
Yeah.

Claude Silver [00:25:37]:
Okay, so I definitely understand that. So what I would do at that point is write everything down. Write everything down still all of the evidence that you’re dumb. Just write it down. Write it down and then walk away. When you’re in another frame of mind, when you’re in another place, I would have yourself and your good friend sit down and bounce those off of him or her. I really would. Because we’re not able to see our reflection. People see our reflection. We only see the nasty negative stuff that we say to our brains.

Claude Silver [00:26:09]:
But our friends, someone who is not in our head can really say to you, Claude, that is so silly. You are not dumb. Then I would say to that friend, yeah, but. And they would say, yeah, but what? You’ve been an advertising executive for the last 20 years. Yeah, but what? Right? You need someone to be able to bounce off of. I really firmly believe that this is not work.

Claude Silver [00:26:46]:
If you’re stuck, this is not really work you can do alone. And I don’t want anyone to give up because they’re like, okay, well, my column is all. It’s all true. I am dumb, right? I don’t want you to have to give up on that. It’s not. We’re just. We’re better than that. We deserve to really feel like we can thrive, not just survive in this world, and that work has to be done by us.

Dave Stachowiak [00:27:15]:
Isn’t it interesting how we say things to ourselves that are, like, so disempowering, negative, hateful sometimes that we would never say to any other human being, and yet we, so many of us are, like.

Dave Stachowiak [00:27:32]:
Willing and able to just say that to ourselves. And like, part of. It’s just that it is just part of the normal human experience of living in this world of like, recognizing that and. And also knowing that’s normal and we can also shift from it.

Claude Silver [00:27:44]:
Yes, exactly. I love that you just said that, Dave, because there’s nothing abnormal about this. We all, all of us have somewhat of an imposter syndrome, somewhat of a limiting belief. And I don’t know if it comes from childhood. I don’t know where, you know, I can only talk about where mine comes from. But we deserve to get out of this hamster wheel, my friend. We really, really do.

Claude Silver [00:28:11]:
We’re meant for greater things. And I’m sure the Greeks went through this, I’m sure the Egyptians went through this. I’m sure every civilization has gone through this. But it just seems so loud right now, right here, right now, with the generations that I certainly work with.

Dave Stachowiak [00:28:35]:
I can’t remember if someone told me this on the podcast or I read it somewhere, so maybe someone will write in and remind me if it was on the podcast. But I heard this wonderful invitation a while back on if you- I was thinking about the evolve step and like the, the changing the narrative and what does it look like when it’s different. And this really nice invitation that if you don’t think something could be true for you today, when you’re thinking about evolving, could you imagine a future where it could be true about you? Like, could you imagine a year or two or five years from now where you could show up and have a conversation and not be fearful or show up in an intelligent way in a conversation, whatever, like the label is. And I find that to be really a nice invitation when I’m working with someone and supporting them on. To reframe the narrative a little bit of just thinking, like, don’t even worry about today, tomorrow, next week. But could you see this maybe being true for you in the future? And sometimes that’s just enough to be able to like get that nudge over and to actually articulate what the evolve sounds like.

Claude Silver [00:29:41]:
Yeah. Yes, that right there is, I just want to say, bingo on that. And again, where we are as a civilization, I would say in this day and age is we’re still grappling post Covid with a lot of alienation, isolation, people feeling lonely. We know that. You know, you’ve seen some of the studies now that talk about men of a certain age are finding that they really don’t have a friend, or maybe they have one friend, but they really don’t have friends to hang out with. You know, there’s all this stuff going on right now in our society and for whatever reason it’s there, but I really think it’s going to take all of us, it’s going to take a massive village for us to turn this corner and start to believe in ourselves and start to believe in others. And that is going to take something called kindness, vulnerability, compassion, humility. It’s going to take a lot of emotional intelligence skills to do.

Claude Silver [00:30:47]:
And we can do that. We can do that. We are wired to belong. All human beings are wired to belong. We’re supposed to be in community with one another. And I think this is the time where we need to start being present and, and intentional about getting back to that.

Dave Stachowiak [00:31:07]:
Claude, you are literally at the heart of an organization that stands for great culture, excellence, heart people. I mean, so many of us have admired Gary Vee’s work for many years and his message about people and culture and all the things and so many examples in the book of that. And I’m curious, having been in this leadership role and now put together this book to teach others how to do this better over the last few years, what have you changed your mind on that’s so great?

Claude Silver [00:31:38]:
I just love that question. I’ve changed my mind on patience. That is what I will say. And that is due to working with Gary Vaynerchuk. What I understand now is that it’s a long game, it’s a marathon, not a sprint. I used to think you can get from A to Z and you didn’t have to do anything else. And now I know what it’s like to actually be again, I’ll use the word intentional and to be patient, setting things up so that you have the payoff in time. Right.

Claude Silver [00:32:16]:
But not immediate and not look for it immediately because it’s not going to be there. And so playing the long game is something that he taught me, I would say a year in to my experience with him. And that has really evolved and I’m really. I like it. I like the idea that patience is a long game now. I really like that. It kind of like, in a way let me off the hook. It gave me more time to show up, to prove to myself, xyz, whatever that was.

Claude Silver [00:32:48]:
So that’s one of the things I would say has changed.

Dave Stachowiak [00:32:51]:
Claude Silver is the author of Be Yourself at Work: The Groundbreaking Power of Showing Up, Standing Out, and Leading from the Heart. Claude, thank you so much for your work.

Claude Silver [00:33:01]:
Thank you, Dave. Appreciate you.

Dave Stachowiak [00:33:03]:
And you.

Dave Stachowiak [00:33:10]:
If this conversation was helpful to you, three related episodes I’d recommend. One of them is episode 232, How to Tame Your Inner Critic. Tara Mohr was my guest on that episode. I have referred this conversation to so many folks over the years, and I always hear how helpful it is of thinking about how to respond to that voice that we all have in our heads, that inner critic. We all know it, we all hear it. Tara, in that conversation, invites us to think about that inner critic, give it a name, and actually to approach it in a much more helpful way so that it can work for us and not Against Us. Episode 232. If you tame your inner critic is chattering at you a lot in a way that’s not helpful, it’s a wonderful conversation to start with.

Dave Stachowiak [00:33:54]:
Also recommended, episode 7 15, how to Stand up for Yourself. Sunita Sah was my guest on that episode. We talked about defiance, and not just defiance in the way that oftentimes we think about it, but defiance as far as how we can actually bring that in a healthy way into our work, into our careers, into our organizations, and how to think about how that shows up in a professional capacity. There’s so many wonderful invitations she makes and also fascinating the common patterns that we tend to follow. Almost all of us when we think about defying and ultimately do defy something that is important to us. Episode 715 for that. And then finally, I’m thinking about the recent conversation with Muriel Wilkins. Episode 756, What It Feels Like When You Don’t Belong.

Dave Stachowiak [00:34:41]:
Speaking of voices that are in our heads, one of the common ones that comes up, especially when we move into a new role, a new position, new opportunity, is that feeling like, oh gosh, I worked so hard to get into this position and now it feels like I don’t belong here for whatever reason. Muriel and I talked about, what do you do when you have that feeling? And perhaps just as importantly, what can you do as a tactical next step that’s going to help you to move through it and move past it. Episode 756 for that. Her book Leadership Unblocked. Fabulous on that and so many other topics. All of those episodes you can find on the coachingforleaders.com website. If you haven’t set up your free membership before, I’m inviting you to do so today at coachingforleaders.com it’s going to give you access to the entire library of episodes that I’ve aired since 2011, searchable by topic. But it’s also going to give you access to a bunch of other benefits inside of the free membership. And one of those benefits is access to all of my book and interview notes. Almost everytime that I am reading a book I am taking notes, I am highlighting the relvent sections that I think will be most helpful for the conversations that emerge here on the podcast, but also things that don’t always emerge in our conversations but that I’ve taken notes on and I post those for almost every interview, as I am today with Claude.

Dave Stachowiak [00:35:58]:
That’s one of the benefits of getting involved with the free membership is you have full access to my book and interview notes. It’s a PDF download on all the almost all the episodes, the ones that are available to be able to to grab for your own learning and growth and reflect on some of the things we’ve talked about in this conversation. One of the benefits of free membership. If you haven’t set it up before, go over to coachingforleaders.com and set up your free membership today. You’ll be in with us getting aceess to all those resources.

Dave Stachowiak [00:36:27]:
Coaching for Leaders is editied by Andrew Kroeger. Production support is provided by Sierra Priest. Next Monday I’m to going Glad to welcome Eileen Collins to the show. Eileen was the first woman to both pilot and command the space shuttle and command any U.S. space mission. We’re having a conversation about leading with poise when the stakes are high. Join me for that chat with Eileen. Have a great week and see you back on Monday.