703: Your Reputation is Your Currency, with Maha Abouelenein

Dave Stachowiak [00:00:00]:
A definition of the word currency in Merriam Webster’s dictionary is general use, acceptance, or prevalence. All of us wanna be accepted and prevalent in the work we get to do. In this episode, how your reputation is perhaps the most important currency of all. This is coaching for leaders episode 703.Production Credit: Produced by Innovate Learning, maximizing human potential.

Dave Stachowiak [00:00:31]:
Greetings to you from Orange County, California. This is Coaching for Leaders, and I’m your host, Dave Stachowiak. Leaders aren’t born, they’re made. And this weekly show helps you discover leadership wisdom through insightful conversations. Reputation, so important for each one of us. Our personal brand, what it says about us, and what importantly other people say about us when we’re not in the room. Today, a conversation on helping us to get better at thinking about how we consider our personal brands and how we continue to invest in them. I’m so pleased to welcome Maha Abouelenein.

Dave Stachowiak [00:01:12]:
She is an American Egyptian with more than 30 years of global communications experience advising global corporate giants, start ups, governments, CEOs, and high net worth individuals. She’s the CEO of Digital and Savvy, a strategic communications consulting firm with offices in the states and Dubai. Maha is on the global board of directors of the Associated Press and host the Savvy Talk podcast. She’s the author of 7 Rules of Self Reliance: How to Stay Low, Keep Moving, Invest in Yourself, and Own Your Future. Maja, what a pleasure to talk with you.

Maha Abouelenein [00:01:47]:
Thank you so much for having me. I’m excited to be here.

Dave Stachowiak [00:01:50]:
Me too. I loved reading through the book, and I grabbed a line out of it that really, I was so curious about. You write, “years ago, I thought people who had their own personal brands were driven by ego. I thought it was sort of an arrogant pushy thing to put yourself out there and say, hey. Look at me. I know stuff. It seems self serving.” And you mentioned in that chapter that you have a really different point of view today.

Dave Stachowiak [00:02:21]:
What’s different?

Maha Abouelenein [00:02:22]:
Thank you for the question. I think a lot of people think personal branding is about self promotion. Look at me. I know stuff. But personal branding is about leadership. Personal branding is not about self promotion, it’s about idea promotion. And I think it’s about thought leadership that if you have unique skills and talents, you should share it with the world. I want you to think of the word personal brand the same as reputation.

Maha Abouelenein [00:02:48]:
It’s your reputation, and who doesn’t wanna care about their reputation? Who doesn’t wanna build their reputation? Who doesn’t wanna protect their reputation? So when I thought a lot about personal branding, I’m like, oh, I’m not a personal brand. That’s what companies are. I’m not a personal brand. That’s what celebrities are. I’m not a personal brand. That’s what CEOs or high profile figures are. But I was wrong and that’s when I changed my thinking. I’m thinking, today, my personal brand is my reputation.

Maha Abouelenein [00:03:18]:
It’s how I want the world to see me. It’s how I wanna show up at work. It’s how I want my boss to perceive me, my employer to perceive me, my colleagues to perceive me. That’s what your personal brand is. It’s your reputation.

Dave Stachowiak [00:03:32]:
That distinction seems so critical to me of the distinction between self promotion and leadership. And I think we’ve all seen the self promoting person. Right? And the ego driven personality. But I don’t know how much all of us have thought about the leadership part of it. Could you play out that distinction a bit? Like, when you think about leadership, what does that look like and sound like?

Maha Abouelenein [00:03:55]:
Yeah. So think about somebody who is really good at nutrition and offers leadership tips and advice and leads with thought leadership on how much protein do you need to eat in a day. You know, just having that idea, that thought leadership, if you have expertise, if you have knowledge, share it with the world. Do you know how to cook? Do you know about mobility and stretching? Do you understand how to change a tire in a quick way when you’re stressed out? Do you have ideas that you wanna share? That’s thought leadership, and it’s very simple. Anybody has unique talents and skills, but not everybody’s using it to share their ideas either in person or online or through a newsletter or their community or through organizations that they belong to. You have these unique skills and talents. You just need to use them.

Dave Stachowiak [00:04:49]:
And it’s not about promoting yourself. It’s about promoting the ideas you have.

Maha Abouelenein [00:04:53]:
Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. It’s not about self promotion. It’s about idea promotion. So one of one of the things that I learned from my father was put your head down and let your work speak for itself. You don’t need to go out and promote your work and what great job you did or what project you were the rock star on. If you do good work and if you are consistent and if you are delivering and you’re providing value to others, it will rise on its own.

Maha Abouelenein [00:05:19]:
And then people will point and say, well, who did that? Who did that work or who produced that or who created that opportunity? Then it comes to you. So that’s why I feel like don’t worry about promoting yourself. Put in the hard work, put in the effort, let your ideas be the star of the show.

Dave Stachowiak [00:05:35]:
You invite us to think about reputation as currency. Tell me about that analogy.

Maha Abouelenein [00:05:41]:
You know, money is something that we value, something that we need for our livelihoods. Money is something that we always worry about. How can we build it? How can we grow it? How can we have it? Right? And I want you to think of your reputation in the same way. Your reputation is the most important asset you own. It’s your name. It’s the only thing, Dave, that you were actually born with that you actually owned. You acquired that jacket. You acquired the car.

Maha Abouelenein [00:06:08]:
You acquired this laptop, but you are born with your name, and it’s your reputation. And so I’m like, treat it like a valuable currency. How to build it? How to protect it? What’s its worth? What’s its value? Have you ever thought to ask yourself, what is my reputation worth? Let’s say we had another pandemic and you have to rely on your name and yourself for your livelihood. Could you do it? That’s why I want people to think about how important it is to build your reputation, protect your reputation. You could have the best company in the world with the best products, the best supply chain, the best marketing, the best sales team, but if you don’t have a good reputation, you won’t have a business because people won’t trust you. And trust is the cornerstone of a good reputation, and you get trust by having good relationships with people.

Dave Stachowiak [00:06:56]:
I was thinking about that analogy of reputation as currency and, like, how powerful that is because when you think about it and money in particular is like a really interesting analogy for this because money in and of itself is just colorful paper or metal coins. Right? Like, really, that’s what it is. And the reason it has value is because we all collectively and others when we’re trying to use it, recognize it as value. And when I think about reputation, like, there’s there’s such a great connection there because reputation is strong when others perceive it as valuable, not how I perceive it.

Maha Abouelenein [00:07:39]:
Yeah. I think the value equation in life is it’s not what I think it’s valuable. I think it’s what you think is valuable. Right? Yeah. So when you come to think about- and this is one of the principles I talk about in the book about being a value creator and try to create value for other people, being of service to others, making deposits in other people’s trust banks. That’s what creating value is. And if I’m thinking about, you know, my relationship with you, Dave, I have to listen. What do you care about? What keeps you up at night? What are some challenges you’re facing? What are some things that are high priority for you? And then if I wanna be a value creator, I think, how can I deliver that? What are some of the things that I understand that Dave values and then how can I deliver that? So focusing on the things that you care about, not what I care about.

Maha Abouelenein [00:08:30]:
Even at work, leadership, coaching, when you talk about coaching for leaders, leaders who are effective at their jobs understand how to create value for their business, how to create value for each other, how to create value for your colleagues, and it starts by doing things that the other person cares about, not what I care about.

Dave Stachowiak [00:08:49]:
Yeah. Indeed. And you said this a few moments ago, and I’d love to loop back on it that you and I have both heard people say, well, I don’t really need to sometimes they say this explicitly and sometimes they just sort of say this contextually, but I’m I’m not a company, so I’m not a brand. Like, I don’t really need to think about that the same way. When you hear someone say that, how do you respond to invite them to think about it a little bit differently?

Maha Abouelenein [00:09:19]:
Personal brand equals reputation. So you don’t care about your reputation? Because even within my friends that I talk to them about this all the time, they’re like, I’m not a company. I don’t have a business. Yeah. But you have a reputation at your country club or your community or your gym or with your friends or your neighbors. Your reputation is your personal brand. It’s you know, Jeff Bezos said it best, like, it’s what people say about you when you’re not in the room. You don’t have to be a company to worry about your reputation, but you need to be thoughtful because of a lot of things that are changed in our dynamic world, because of culture, cancel culture, because people have the ability to take a photo or a video of you at your Starbucks and post it and share it and broadcast it with the world.

Maha Abouelenein [00:10:02]:
We live in different times, so we need to think about it. Whether or not you wanna post on social media, that’s not what I’m talking about. I’m not talking about build your personal brand to be a social media influencer. I’m talking about being intentional about your name, your reputation, how people perceive you, and what you’re doing to proactively shape it.

Dave Stachowiak [00:10:24]:
And being able to trust yourself as part of this too. And the subtitle of the book, part of it is “stay low and keep moving.” Tell me about that. What does that mean?

Maha Abouelenein [00:10:35]:
Yeah. Actually, a a gentleman I worked with many, many years ago had said this, he kept on saying, stay low, keep moving every time he’d leave us or walk away or signing it in an email, and it just stuck with me as a metaphor for my life. And I looked it up and stay low, keep moving is a military term. So when you’re on your stomach and you’re on kind of all fours and you’re trying to avoid getting hit by targets, they just tell you to stay low and keep moving so you don’t get hit by arsenal. But the reason I took it for a metaphor for life is stay low. Put in the effort. Put in the hard work.

Maha Abouelenein [00:11:11]:
Don’t listen to the distractions. Don’t listen to the naysayers, stay low and focused on what you care about because there’ll be plenty of people in your life that you will meet. They’re gonna tell you you can’t do that, it’s not gonna work, distract you from your goals to work on theirs. So stay low is a meaning of stay focused, put in the effort, put in the hard work. No one is an overnight success. You have to put in the reps, you gotta put in the time. Keep moving has to do with the world we live in, setbacks, obstacles, problems, struggles, relationships, family. There’s all kinds of things that can keep us from staying low, and so what I’m trying to say is keep moving.

Maha Abouelenein [00:11:56]:
Try to win the 1st day, then try to win the next day. So despite the fact that you’re gonna have setbacks, you’re gonna have obstacles, you’re gonna have economic downturns, you’re gonna have recessions, you’re going to get sick, you’re going to fail, Keep moving. So the message of stay low, keep moving is to inspire you to put your head down, put in the effort, don’t be distracted, and keep moving because despite all the obstacles, you’re gonna get through the other side and things will work out if you stay low and keep moving.

Dave Stachowiak [00:12:26]:
You identify 3 qualities of a strong personal brand, and the first one is authenticity. And I think people sometimes mishear the good advice on authenticity that I’ve heard from you and others that it’s about revealing your personal life. And it’s not that we should never do that, but I think that’s not really the message about authenticity, is it?

Maha Abouelenein [00:12:55]:
Yeah. I think this, like, the easiest way to build an effective personal brand is to be you and not have to fake it till you make it or try to be this Internet persona or an in life real life persona. So being authentic means that you’re just gonna try to be consistent to who you are. Like, who you see in real life is who you see on social media. Because how you treat people, how you treat customers, how do you treat employees, how do you treat colleagues, you gotta be consistent and be authentic. And the authenticity is just being true to who you are. What are your values? What do you care about? How do you consistently practice them? And people see through that, like we live in a world that’s very transparent, and people want to see the real thing. They don’t wanna see polished and produced or fake or fake insights.

Dave Stachowiak [00:13:46]:
And you said that word consistency a few times, and that’s one of the other qualities you identify as a as a strong personal brand. And it’s not just about what you are sharing, talking about doing, but it’s the who you are in different venues, you say. That seems so critical thinking about this and what consistency means.

Maha Abouelenein [00:14:06]:
Yeah. Because think about it, Dave. The way you talk to your mother is not the same way you talk to your daughter, the same way you talk to your colleague, or same way you talk to one of your best friends from high school. So everybody has different audiences that they talk to. So the way that you tailor your message has to be relevant to that audience. And so I think, like, how we conduct ourselves at business is is different than how we might talk to our best friends. And so knowing the difference, having that self awareness of how to be authentic to who you are, but tailor your message to be relevant to the audience you’re trying to speak to and connect with.

Dave Stachowiak [00:14:45]:
Yeah. And I think that that is it’s really hard for a lot of folks to think about, like, okay. How do I be consistent with who I am? And yet, I do show up in these different venues that are really different. Like, I like you said, it’s a very different conversation when I’m talking with one of my parents versus meeting other parents on the soccer field versus having a conversation at work versus talking with a customer. The common thread, the things that stay true to who we are, how do how do we find that and identify that?

Maha Abouelenein [00:15:21]:
Okay. The common threads in staying true to who we are is it’s a process. Right? Like, asking ourselves difficult questions on what do we stand for? What do we want people to know about us? How do we want to tell those stories? You know? So I feel like first of all, it’s like asking yourselves questions, like, what do I value? What am I consistent doing? I think that’s a good place to start.

Dave Stachowiak [00:15:43]:
Yeah. Been doing and purpose. Also, one of the key things you say is so important with a brand. And you write, “One of the easiest ways to be consistent with your personal brand is knowing what your purpose is and what you stand for.” And we’ve all seen purpose mission statements up. Some people have written them down for themselves, but it’s really just the knowing, like, what am I doing? What do I stand for? Right?

Maha Abouelenein [00:16:08]:
Yes. I think, like, you know, it took me a long time for me to develop my purpose. My purpose is to help people communicate better, but I didn’t just get there overnight. I had to look at what it was I consistently doing. What jobs did I find the most joy in? Where did I achieve the most success? So finding your purpose could be very simple. My purpose is solving problems. My purpose is to make people feel better. My purpose is to connect people with others that make I build a satisfaction with that.

Maha Abouelenein [00:16:37]:
So your purpose doesn’t necessarily have to be something related to your job. It could be a skill, a quality, a trait that you have. I actually met somebody who told me her purpose is to help other people see their potential.

Dave Stachowiak [00:16:52]:
Mhmm.

Maha Abouelenein [00:16:52]:
And that manifests its way with her friends, with her family, at work, with her children, with her pet, like helping her dog. I really believe that it doesn’t necessarily have to be your job. Your purpose doesn’t have to be working in finance. Your purpose could be I’m really good at unlocking unlocking problems and solving them. And my purpose is to help people achieve the goals that they wanna achieve, stuff like that.

Dave Stachowiak [00:17:18]:
Yeah. Well and I so appreciate you saying, like, that is a process for you. I mean, as much of an expert as you are on this and have, like, helped so many others, like, still what a process it is. And I my experience has been really similar. Like, I feel like I’ve sort of stumbled into a lot of things over the years. And what I mentioned at the very start of the episode, leaders aren’t born, they’re made. I don’t know where I pulled that quote years ago, but I started saying at the beginning of beginning of episodes. And it turns out it’s a Vince Lombardi quote from years ago.

Dave Stachowiak [00:17:46]:
And at one point, I was like, oh, we need a better tagline for our business other than just that what I pulled years ago. And and a whole bunch of people were like, no. That’s great. That’s like what you do. And I got to thinking about it. I’m like, well, yeah. Yeah. That’s actually why I started doing this is for most of the people out there, I think, that are leaders that are like, this didn’t come naturally to me.

Dave Stachowiak [00:18:11]:
I never got training on how to do this. I didn’t I was not never the naturally charismatic person. I I needed to learn and to grow this. I was not the naturally charismatic person. I I needed to learn and to grow this. And but it took years of, like, experimenting, trying things out, stumbling into things where I finally realized, oh, that’s really what I’m doing, but it it was it was absolutely a process.

Maha Abouelenein [00:18:33]:
It is a process and it takes time. That’s another thing too is have patience. You need to go through it to figure out what it is that you want to be your purpose in narrative. It’s not something that you just wake up one day and you know what it is. It might take you a lifetime to figure that out, and you might iterate it and change with the time. So I feel like have patience. Give yourself grace. You don’t have to wake up defining what’s my purpose? I don’t have my purpose.

Maha Abouelenein [00:18:57]:
I feel like I don’t have a purpose. That’s not true. You’re making progress. You’re learning. You’re getting experience. Sometimes when you think about you need to do, you know- I always think about this approach when especially when coming to take a job. Some jobs are for learning and some jobs are for earning. Learning is a really good way for you to discover what you’re good at, what you’re not good at, what you like to do, what do you not like to do.

Maha Abouelenein [00:19:20]:
So sometimes I would take a position or a job or an assignment because of the opportunity to learn far exceeds how much I could make and make those decisions based on what you’re learning. So if you’re learning about yourself, if you’re growing, if you’re investing in yourself, if you’re curious about the world, you will find your purpose. It’s not something you’re just gonna wake up and know right away. It took me, like, 30 years to figure out, okay, this is why I’m here. This is my purpose, and this is what I care about sharing with the world. I may have other things I might wanna do, but this is my main thing.

Dave Stachowiak [00:19:50]:
And that’s such a great lead into one of the invitations you make on building your reputation, protecting it, which is participate. Show up. Right? And I I think about this in the context of- and and this isn’t only about, like, social media by any means. I I’m thinking about some of the statistics I’ve seen of just like people who use LinkedIn, for example, is which is the one I’m most familiar with. In how many people, like, show up on the site and read stuff and have accounts versus the people who actually engage and post something and put in a comment. And the ratio is massive. I don’t remember what the current statistics are, but the amount of people that actually show up and participate in that venue are just a tiny percentage of the people who are overall engaged. And I think there’s a metaphor there for all venues, not just social media and online, but, like, it is interesting how very few people actually jump in and participate in and engage in a conversation.

Maha Abouelenein [00:20:48]:
Yeah. And, again, everything that we’re talking about here is not necessarily online. Right?

Dave Stachowiak [00:20:54]:
Yeah.

Maha Abouelenein [00:20:55]:
It’s how you show up in real life that matters. How do you treat people? The barista, your colleagues. And I feel like finding your purpose, your narrative, how you show up online, that gives people a lot of angst because they don’t wanna do it. Because once they do it, if you’re gonna do it well, you have to be consistent at it. It’s not about that at all.

Dave Stachowiak [00:21:12]:
You write “Everyone has an audience. You just haven’t found yours yet. Keep telling your story.” I think about yeah. Audience, and we think about that with, like, influencers and social media. But but you you are and you’re inviting us to think of audience much more broadly and personally.

Maha Abouelenein [00:21:28]:
Yeah. Because you know what? The way that the market works right now, you don’t have to you don’t have to do one to many. You can do one to 1. You can work within communities. You can talk within communities. And the reason I I mentioned this in the book and it’s a story that I love and I wanna share it if we have a second Please. About you have your audience, you haven’t found it yet. There’s a woman who wrote a book and she was having her launch event, and she did an Eventbrite and basically told people you can register and come to my book signing event, and about 20 some people registered to come to the book signing event.

Maha Abouelenein [00:22:00]:
The day she had the event, only 2 people showed up. And she took to Twitter and she was vulnerable, and she said, I’m really disappointed. I wrote my whole life put into this book and I my heart and soul into it, and I did a launch event and only 2 people came for my book signing. And because she posted that, the Internet did what the Internet does. Everyone found this tweet, and the largest authors in the world, the Margaret Atwood, the Stephen King, very famous authors started talking about their first experience and when they went to their book signing and launched their books and nobody showed up, and obviously they’re acclaimed writers right now, and it took over. People started asking, what’s the book about? Can you share a cover of the book? What’s the story of the book? It was a very unique sci fi, fantasy fiction genre medieval book. And pretty soon people, like, started calling her from Europe. I’ll publish your book.

Maha Abouelenein [00:22:52]:
I’ll be your agent. People from the US, where is it sold? Can you send the link? And her book sold out.

Dave Stachowiak [00:22:58]:
Oh, wow.

Maha Abouelenein [00:23:00]:
And she was overwhelmed with the heartwarming messages she got and the reaction. And the message to me after seeing that story was everybody has an audience, you just haven’t found it yet. So she had an audience of people who cared about that genre of her book. She just hadn’t found them. And I just tell that story because I want people to think, oh, I’m gonna start with 0 followers and I wanna build my photography business, or I want to be a life coach and I don’t know where to get customers from. How am I gonna do it? Well, you start talking about what you care about and you do it consistently, and your audience is going to find you. Because if you bring value to them, they will find you. And I just wanna encourage people to do that because I feel like the first step is getting started.

Dave Stachowiak [00:23:45]:
Yeah. The

Maha Abouelenein [00:23:46]:
first step is getting started, and I feel like that terrorizes people into thinking about what are people gonna say? Who does she think she is? Oh, is she a social media influencer now? Why is she doing that? But it’s not. Like, look at the creator economy. Our economy is driven by that. And I feel like there’s this thing called the Internet, and guess what, Dave? It’s free. Yeah. You can access an abundance of information for free. You can learn anything on YouTube. You can listen to podcasts for free.

Maha Abouelenein [00:24:17]:
You can read books for free. Why wouldn’t you tap into that? Why wouldn’t you step into your own power and find out what creative things you could do and how you can really upscale yourself and invest in yourself?

Dave Stachowiak [00:24:29]:
And I love the story of the author. Thank you so much for sharing that. And it’s also like such a great example of the what do I do next after something doesn’t work? Because I think that that is the reality that so many of us face in our careers, in our lives is we try something, we do it, we mean well, it doesn’t work, or in some cases, we have a horrible outcome. In fact, I have a client right now who very well meaning is an executive, very well meaning, asked a couple of questions about expenditures in her organization recently. And unbeknownst to her, sort of uncovered a political firestorm of what people were spending money on that some people knew, some people didn’t, and and has taken a reputation hit as a result of it. And we were having a conversation this week, and I feel awful for her that she stumbled into this situation. And we were talking about, yeah, this thing happened and, like, how unfortunate and sad it is. And what really matters is what you do next.

Dave Stachowiak [00:25:33]:
Right? What really matters is the conversations you have now. Like, a lot of people have kind of, like, said an organization, like, oh, okay. It happened, whatever, and they’ve sort of just swept under the rug and they’re moving on. And we were like, no. Actually, go have some conversations proactively with the people who feel like they were wronged by you and talk it through because, otherwise, you you leave that impression of what happened that doesn’t match who you are.

Maha Abouelenein [00:25:59]:
Yeah. I mean, everyone’s vulnerable to a a crisis at any moment. Right? With something on social media, with their business, or their brand.

Dave Stachowiak [00:26:06]:
Oh, yeah.

Maha Abouelenein [00:26:07]:
A situation that they see. And I think that because we live in a transparent world and we see what’s happening in the Internet, we want information in real time. We want answers in real time. And when you don’t answer people in real time and you leave a vacuum, that leads to speculation, leads to misinformation, it leads to rumors. And so the first thing that I always advise people, let’s say you said something or you did something that got you into hot water or put you in a position that probably wasn’t your best light, is one, you need to apologize. If you made a mistake, you have to just be upfront and call a spade a spade. You made a mistake.

Maha Abouelenein [00:26:46]:
2, you have to show empathy. A lot of people who can apologize sincerely and they’re empathetic about it can win a lot of people over. We’ve seen lots of companies handle a crisis the wrong way and we all recognize it when we see it. Is because they’re not taking accountability. They’re not taking responsibility. They’re not apologizing. They’re not saying I’m sorry. Those two words can go a very, very long way.

Maha Abouelenein [00:27:09]:
And I think the last thing when think when something bad happens or a crisis hits or you get yourself into a situation that you need to respond to, take a pause. A lot of people feel the need to overreact and overcorrect. Take a pause. Take a step back. What did I do wrong? How can I do it better? What policies do I need to change? What training do I need to do? Thinking it through and try to improve for the next time around so that you don’t have to be in that situation again.

Dave Stachowiak [00:27:36]:
This is a corporate example, not a personal one, but you do mention I mean, I think is a great example of that in the book, the, situation with Delta Airlines not that long ago. They made these big changes to their SkyMiles program. It upset a lot of people. And they went through that process and followed it in a way that resolved the situation for a lot of folks, including you.

Maha Abouelenein [00:27:56]:
Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, I love the way that they handled that situation. They said, you know what? We may have gone too far. We don’t always get it right. Having that humble approach is very effective in winning customers over because companies, like people, make mistakes. And I think if you just take yourself off, your pedestal and say, you know what? We messed up here and we’re gonna make it right. That goes a long way with the customer.

Dave Stachowiak [00:28:24]:
You remind us in the book of what we already know. I think all of us, and yet we sometimes forget in the moment when we’re thinking about, like, how do I build my brand? How do I build relationships with people? And one of the invitations is just help people out. Help out your network. If you start there, that’s a that’s something any of us can do. Right?

Maha Abouelenein [00:28:46]:
Yeah. It’s simple and it’s for me, it’s a very simple open ended question. How can I help? Just asking an open ended question in general is a great way to gauge how you can be of value and of service to others. And it’s remarkable what such a simple step of asking an open ended question can change the trajectory of a conversation, of a relationship, of an opportunity by just asking something so simple as how can I help?

Dave Stachowiak [00:29:14]:
And you also invite us to diversify our events and just how we show up. Tell me a bit about that. What’s significant about that?

Maha Abouelenein [00:29:24]:
Well, if you keep talking to the same people, you’re not gonna grow. You’re not gonna grow your reach. You’re not gonna grow your audience. You’re not gonna grow the exposure and learning that you have. So I always talk about, like, try to talk to different people. It’s just like when you’re in the same group of friends and the same group of people. Right? You wanna try to meet new people. You have to go outside that circle.

Maha Abouelenein [00:29:46]:
So for example, I have a friend who does a lot of work in AI, and he talks at a lot of marketing conferences on the impact of AI when it comes to marketing and brands. And I said to him, why don’t you go talk to the tourism sector, the hospitality industry, the real estate sector? They wanna know how AI will help the real estate industry. How will AI change education? Maybe you should go talk at education conferences. So by diversifying who you talk to and who you engage with, not only will you create new opportunities for yourself, you’ll also learn more about yourself and how what you do can can grow your business or yourself personally.

Dave Stachowiak [00:30:24]:
Yeah. And it’s all about perspective, staying vigilant, as you say, staying informed. And I think that there is sometimes I feel like sometimes, like, okay. I need to, like, engage with everything. And, of course, you can’t. There’s there’s no way to do that. But there is a distinction between awareness and engagement.

Dave Stachowiak [00:30:44]:
Some things you have to engage on and you and you should. And and also just knowing what’s going on even if you don’t necessarily engage in it directly, knowing what’s happening in the world, reading, listening, all those things, like, that is a really savvy thing to be doing.

Maha Abouelenein [00:30:59]:
Yeah. I think I think the one thing that a lot of people like, when you talk about engagement, there’s different ways to measure if what you’re doing is effective or not. Are you getting engagement by comments on your post? Are you getting engagement by people sharing your stories with other people? Are you getting engagement from lead generation? Are you capturing emails? Are you getting engagement, online or in public as well? Like, are you seeing the sales come through the door? Are you seeing those changes? And I find that you can’t just measure one way if it’s working or not because they, for example, I want to put out a piece of content saying people I’m doing a coaching workshop, And I might get a lot of feedback on, like, this is what I’d like to learn. These are the things that I’d like to learn if I came to that session is different than how many people register to sign up. So there’s not just one measuring stick for engagement is what I’m trying to say.

Dave Stachowiak [00:31:56]:
Maha Abouelenein is the author of 7 Rules of Self Reliance: How to Stay Low, Keep Moving, Invest in Yourself, and Own Your Future. Maha, thank you so much for your work.

Maha Abouelenein [00:32:06]:
Dave, I’m so grateful to be here, and I love the questions and the conversation.

Dave Stachowiak [00:32:16]:
If this conversation was helpful to you, 3 related episodes all with a nod to reputation that I think would also be helpful for you to listen in on. One of them is episode 526, making the case for your promotion. May Bush was my guest on that episode. We talked about what are the tactics and also the mindsets that are most important when you are at that career point when it’s time to make the case for your promotion. And May and I talked in that conversation about how to do that, her experience, how she’s helped others to do that well. It’s such a great compliment to this conversation. Episode 526 for more of the tactics on that. Also recommended episode 661, how to tell a story about yourself.

Dave Stachowiak [00:32:58]:
David Hutchins was my guest on that episode, our resident storytelling expert. Of course, leaders are often telling stories of others and on behalf of the organization. And sometimes it really does make sense both for the leader and for the organization, for the leader to be telling a story about themselves. But how you do it is key. In episode 661, David and I talked about that, the strategy, the framework, and most importantly, gave some examples. David had me share several of my own stories as an example of one way to do it, and many of you told us that that conversation was so helpful to you. Again, that’s episode 661. And then finally, I’d recommend episode 693, an invitation for kindness and leadership.

Dave Stachowiak [00:33:41]:
James Rhee was my guest in that conversation. And recently, we talked about the importance of kindness, which, of course, we all recognize from children’s books in our families in our friendships and yet sometimes we don’t practice as much as we espouse in the workplace an opportunity for kindness and leadership for all of us and how to put our good intentions into practice. Episode 693, where to begin there. All of those episodes you can find on the coachingforleaders.com website, and I’m inviting you to set up your free membership at coachingforleaders.com. It is completely free. Access to all of the benefits inside of the free membership are available to you. Just go over to coachingforleaders.com, set it up. One of the things that you’ll receive each week from me as part of your free membership is my weekly guide.

Dave Stachowiak [00:34:32]:
I send it out usually toward the end of the week with a bit of an overview of the episode that’s aired this week, some of the relevant links, the related past episodes as I just mentioned, also things that I found in the media or other resources that I think are gonna be helpful to you this week, things you should know about, what’s happening in the news, but also what’s happening as far as the thinking of others. All of that’s included inside the weekly guide. It is one of the key benefits of your free membership along with so much else. For details, just go over to coachingforleaders.com. Right on the front page there, you can set up your free membership. You’ll have access to everything, including the entire catalog access of the podcast since 2011. Searchable by topic so you can find exactly what you’re looking for. And if what you’re looking for is a bit more, I would encourage you to learn about Coaching for Leaders Plus.

Dave Stachowiak [00:35:24]:
One thing I’m doing each week is writing a journal entry. That’s my reflections on some of the things I’ve learned from experts. I’ve been learning from our members, inspired by some of our conversations in our academy. And just recently, I talked about the value of a good idea. I have had it often happen in my career where someone shares an idea with me in confidence, especially a leader that I’m working with and says, well, I don’t know what to do with this idea. If I start talking about it, someone else is gonna take credit for it. And in my recent journal entry, I talk about how sometimes our first thought of what to do or not do with a good idea isn’t always the most useful one. Some key tactics on how we can actually do a better job of surfacing and socializing an idea and some key truths about what ideas actually mean.

Dave Stachowiak [00:36:14]:
It’s one of my recent journal entries. For more of those and to receive those weekly, find out more at Coaching for Leaders Plus. You can go over to coachingforleaders.plus to discover more. Coaching for Leaders is edited by Andrew Kroeger. Production support is provided by Sierra Priest. Next Monday, I’m glad to welcome Seth Godin back to the show. We are gonna be having a conversation about strategy. Join in with us for that.

Dave Stachowiak [00:36:41]:
Have a great week, and I’ll see you back on Monday.