745: How Music Can Help Us Lead, with Mort Sherman

Dave Stachowiak [00:00:00]:
So many of us love music, and it’s often at the soul of a lot of our personal lives and celebrations and, of course, emotions. But we don’t often think about how we can leverage its power at work. In this episode, how music can help us set the tone for better leadership. This is Coaching for Leaders, episode 745. Production Credit: Produced by Innovate Learning, maximizing human potential. Greetings to you from Orange County, California. This is Coaching for Leaders, and I’m your host, Dave Stachowiak. Leaders aren’t born, they’re made. And this weekly show helps you discover leadership wisdom through insightful conversations.

Dave Stachowiak [00:00:49]:
So many of us enjoy the arts in our lives and in our work, and so many of us enjoy music. But we don’t often think about how music can actually enhance our work and how it can actually help us to lead better. Today, a conversation looking at some of the intersections of what we often think about in the personal domain, but the opportunity that we have to bring music into leadership in a way that helps us to lead more effectively brings joy and movement into our organizations. I’m so pleased to welcome Mort Sherman to the show. Mort is the retired senior associate executive director of the American association of School Administrators, known for his visionary leadership as a superintendent dedicated to elevating academic standards and promoting equitable education. Throughout his career, he championed initiatives that addressed achievement gaps and empowered communities to foster inclusive, impactful learning environments. He is the author, along with his daughter, Sarah Leila Sherman, of Resonant the Transformative Power of Music. One note at a time.

Dave Stachowiak [00:01:54]:
Mort, what a joy to have you with me. Thanks so much for being here, Dave.

Mort Sherman [00:01:58]:
It’s wonderful to be with you. And, you know, we always talk about getting on with our lives after our careers are over. And you use the word retired, which I first thought a year ago. When I retired, that was the right word. And I’ve learned a new one. It’s called being repurposed. It’s figuring out how you live the rest of your life with purpose and with understanding and with intention. And this book that my daughter, not my sister, and I wrote is exactly about intention and purpose.

Mort Sherman [00:02:30]:
Mindful action, we call it. So I am a repurposed superintendent of schools.

Dave Stachowiak [00:02:36]:
I love it. I love it. Well, and that’s a great lead in to. You know, one of the things you highlight in the book is resonance. What is it and why does it matter for leaders?

Mort Sherman [00:02:49]:
Well, without going too deep into the whole neuroscience behind the idea of resonance on a really broad level, when you and I first talked, there was There was this connection. I really liked talking to you, and I liked the work you’re doing. And that connection is resonance. When you have a conductor standing in front of an orchestra, there is a resonance. There is, and I’ll get back to that in a second. But there’s this understanding, this connection that goes on. And great leaders resonate because they listen well. They know the questions to ask.

Mort Sherman [00:03:25]:
They know, in fact, that the folks out there need agency and voice. And so if. If you think for a second of a conductor standing in on stage with back to the audience, and there’s a certain trust that goes on with that and raises the baton. The key image of our book is that we want everybody to be the conductor of their own lives and through music. We use that as an analogy and through real music itself, as a practical way of becoming that conductor, taking control of your own lives. And so we learn to resonate with those who are about to play the music in the orchestra and those around us. We learn to listen. And I think sometimes as leaders, we want to be the sage on the stage.

Mort Sherman [00:04:15]:
We want to be the person who has all the answers. And in fact, the great leaders know that resonance is about listening to those. And when you go through history, there are so many examples. Lincoln going out to the field to visit the troops in the Civil War, or George Washington, even before that, he was in the field and suffered in the cold at Valley Forge with the troops, or FDR doing the fireside chats during the Great Depression, or Ronald Reagan, the great communicator. For each of those and hundreds of other examples, there is this resonance. There is this hearing and feeling those we serve. And the other part to it is almost a neuroscientific term, and it has to do with groove. You know, resonance and groove have this strong connection, not just as a leader, but in musical and brain.

Mort Sherman [00:05:13]:
Like when you go to a concert and everybody starts moving together or holding up their iPhones, you know, or whatever kind of phone they have, and you put on their light and you wave it together, there is that resonance, that groove, that coming together through the music, which is analogous to how a leader has to resonate with the others around. If you don’t have that resonance, if you don’t listen, if you don’t feel, if you don’t understand those in your charge, then you’re not going to succeed as a leader. So this idea of resonance, I’m going to give you a different phrase. Another way of looking at it is emotional frequency. You know, we could feel it Hear it. It creates a trust and the alignment and the connection it provides other with what I said before, agency. And the image that I have constantly is groove, where we sway and we learn and we think together because we are led by somebody who understands that we’re all important and we all want to be conductors of our own lives rather than being automatons out there doing exactly what we’re told to do with high fidelity and no individual input.

Dave Stachowiak [00:06:27]:
You write in the book, “we know that music is not the whole answer to resonant leadership. However, we do know that the use of music as mindful action, coupled with executive function skills will lead to the habits of successful and effective leadership.” I’m thinking about all the things you just said, Morten. Like, I resonate with everything you’re saying, and I think about those situations of music and going to a concert and using music to work out. And yet we often don’t think about music in the context of the workplace and in leadership. When you see it work, how does it help?

Mort Sherman [00:07:05]:
I love that question for lots of reasons. The core answer and the core reason I love the question is it gets to the essential component of what we’re after is that there’s intentional action. And then music in so many ways affects how we think and creates dopamine in the cortisol levels and so on in each of us. And so, you know, I’ll give you three different examples. If you’re in an elevator or department store and you just go through this music playing in the background, it’s not really mindful. It’s just music playing. And it’s intended to set a mood, to set a tone. But we don’t often pay attention to elevator music.

Mort Sherman [00:07:48]:
The second is sometimes when you enter a different kind of environment, you might go into a big conference and there’s all this wonderful music playing, or go to a ball game and everybody in the seventh inning stands up and sings, and you create this community, this connection. Take me out to the ball game. And then that is intentional and is deliberate to create this environment. The third piece is, what we’re really after, is that leaders don’t always rely on themselves and their own instincts to create the playlist or the mood to create that opportunity that establishes that emotional frequency, whether it’s a small meeting or a large conference, but that sometimes there are those out there who are given the agency the voice to help create the music. So if you’re going into a meeting and it’s a big product being released somewhere, one of the big tech Companies, you might have a particular sound you want to create, but wouldn’t it be even more interesting? And to say, hey, you hundred people had to act as my focus group, what kind of music would you like to listen to? How do we stir you up? It’s so different than going into a meeting, which I don’t know I’ve ever done, where’s absolutely quiet, nobody’s talking or nobody’s singing, or there isn’t music playing. There is this connection of that sound to who we are as people. And if we just make it passive, like the elevator music, we’re not taking full advantage of what we know through our neuroscience, through our actual lived experiences of having music impact who we can be as people.

Dave Stachowiak [00:09:24]:
And as you’ve demonstrated that so many times in our lives, we do that, and organizations and sporting events and our personal lives, we utilize music to set the tone, to set the culture. And we don’t often think about doing that in the workplace. And one of the things I really love is that thinking about this as well, I think I should say first that a lot of times we do think about, especially the leaders you mentioned a bit ago, we think about, like, I need to have all the answers. I need to set the tone for everything, for the culture. And, yes, the leader leads that conversation. But there’s a lot of ways to bring that in through others, through the organization and music, one way to do that. And speaking of setting the tone and culture, there’s a wonderful example of chef Jessica Mazzanotti. And you utilize her as an example of just how she sets the tone and culture with music.

Dave Stachowiak [00:10:21]:
Could you share how she goes about that?

Mort Sherman [00:10:24]:
Yeah. And Jessica is really a remarkable chef in New York and is a good friend of our daughter Sarah. And she talks about how, whether it’s cutting the vegetables or sauteing or plating a dish or plating a dish, it’s part of this, what she called, this choreographed dance, that every single movement that you have happen in that kitchen, from the cooking and the cutting to mixing it together in a bowl and putting on a plate. This next line is really so interesting to me. All of that is being orchestrated with the music she plays in the kitchen. And she knows that if she didn’t have music for herself when she was learning to cook, or if she doesn’t have music in the kitchen, there’s a very different tone. And when you think about kitchens being really high stress, and many of us have been through high stress environments, so the goal is not to pump it up and make People even more stressed, but to be deliberate and intentional. And Jessica uses music to calm folks, to focus folks, to create the beat, the orchestration of the kitchen in a way which, as she thinks about it, the right kind of music to shift the atmosphere, to make it feel.

Mort Sherman [00:11:42]:
This is another funny phrase she used to make it feel less like a pressure cooker. You know, you have this image of the steam coming off the top of the pressure cooker, and she wants to create the music in the kitchen so that people could hear it intentionally and not have that steam going off the top of the pressure cooker.

Dave Stachowiak [00:12:02]:
Yeah. And how interesting the examples that she talks about and you talk about in the book of, like, how the vibe changes when different. She makes different choices with music when the music isn’t there. And you write every movement, whether it’s cutting vegetables, sauteing, or plating a dish, is part of a larger choreographed dance. And quoting her, “every single movement that you’re doing, from cutting to cooking to mixing together in a bowl and putting it on a plate, all of that’s being orchestrated along with the vibe and the beat of the music.” And there’s a distinction that you highlight in this chapter between cooking and performing. Tell me about that distinction.

Mort Sherman [00:12:44]:
Yeah, the boiling down. I’ll continue with some more cooking metaphors, but the boiling down of the difference between cooking and performing is that cooking is it, you know, oh, my gosh, I gotta make dinner for the kids or I gotta sling some hamburgers on a flat to get out some. Some food really quickly. And the cooking question is just a perfunctory, like the passive music on the elevator we’re performing is like that orchestration of that conductor waving the baton, that there is a beauty and an art and a skill in putting together the whole orchestration of what happens when people eat. You know, when you sit down at a table with a beautiful tablecloth, perhaps, or candles or a fine glass of wine or just bubbling water, whatever it may be, that all of that is deliberate and intentional to create an environment and an atmosphere. And what Jessica talks about is that performance side of the creation of food and meals to hit our senses. So it’s just not just slapping that. That hamburger on that flat stove somewhere, but in fact, creating so that it hits us as people and nurtures us.

Mort Sherman [00:14:05]:
It nurtures us as humans.

Dave Stachowiak [00:14:08]:
Yeah. And as you say that, Mort, and thinking about nurturing, we made the point on a recent episode that folks expect so much more out of work than I think most of us did a generation ago. Like, we, a Lot of people thought a generation ago about work as a job. And today we expect so much out of our organizations. We expect there to be a community in the workplace. We. We expect a great culture and a support and to learn and to grow and to be supported. And music has the opportunity to build and strengthen community at work.

Dave Stachowiak [00:14:44]:
It’s one of the points you make in the book. And I’m curious, as you’ve seen, examples of how music can actually build and strengthen community. What have you seen that’s worked well?

Mort Sherman [00:14:57]:
There are so many that pop into my head. I was a superintendent of schools for 25 years and often use music in my comments to groups or when I had a party or something. And I’m going to give you a really interesting and somewhat goofy example. Example that I still would use today. Still do use, in fact, it’s the use of kazoos. You know, the idea, seriously, I used to hand out if I were talking to a Rotary at some point to get to this idea of how music shapes and resonates with people, but yet shapes community and network, I would hand out kazoos. And after giving some quick instructions to which end to blow into and how to blow into the kazoo, I’d say, okay, let’s. Let’s all do You Are My Sunshine on a Kazoo.

Mort Sherman [00:15:50]:
And the culture, the smiles, the giggles, or I say, okay, now let’s do Ode to Joy, Beethoven’s Ninth. You often hear it in this really quiet environment with some orchestration at a symphony level. But how about we do it with kazoos and do Ode to Joy? And people do it and they know it. It’s like somewhere buried deep inside of us. So this idea of building, of networking, of creating music intentionally to connect us as people is important. And the other example that comes to mind, you know, great leaders, Lincoln is told, is said to have brought a band and played Dixie at Appomattox. Think of that. Think of that.

Mort Sherman [00:16:38]:
Here’s this. North had just won. The south had just agreed to peace. And he, as a leader, knew that by playing Dixie, he was showing some respect, some understanding, and not saying, we are the Lord and manners who have just defeated you in war, but we respect you and understand you, and we’re going to be united. And by playing this song, I want you to hear me and understand that. I hear you.

Dave Stachowiak [00:17:06]:
There’s three beautiful invitations that Sarah and you make on how we might bring music into our work. And you’ve highlighted a few of them already, and one of them is starting Meetings with music or a mindfulness exercise. And I think that part of that is setting the tone. Right. Like you mentioned with the kazoos, like creating community. And what you may do here and the music you may bring in, I think really matters with what kind of meeting, what kind of gathering is there, and being really intentional about what you may bring in. Right? Yes.

Mort Sherman [00:17:43]:
You know, when Sarah and I give presentations, because she’s a very gifted musician, and I’m always in awe and admiration of this wonderful. Used to be a child, but she’s still our child. And she does this exercise called Breathing with Bach. She does it with teachers in New York City. She does it with kids. She does it with any audience where she plays a piece a Bach. And I’ve added to this. She used to have the audience just stand and swing to the beat and get into this groove and get this rhythm and create this harmony in the room.

Mort Sherman [00:18:20]:
Well, I went to a local restaurant. I said, can I buy some chopsticks? And I now have a store in my office of hundreds of chopsticks and have I give one to everybody. And I said, you are the conductors. You are now with that chopstick, holding a baton. And now let’s listen to the music that Sarah’s playing and keep beat with it. And together there is this groove that’s created, this intention that’s created, and there’s this peace that’s created in the room by having people breathe with Bach. And you could do that with any song.

Mort Sherman [00:19:02]:
There used to be dancing. I forget the name who wrote it, but, you know, let’s dance. And people used to get up and dance. But you’re right, Dave, it has to do with the setting you want to create. Jessica in the kitchen wants to bring the tone down because it’s so high stressed. Sarah, when she does Breathing with Bach, wants to have everybody connect and form community. Let’s Dance gets people out of their seats and gets excited about the moment. There are hundreds of examples of music you could select to build a community, to put people in harmony and connect them for the intention of that moment.

Dave Stachowiak [00:19:40]:
You write, “starting a meeting with guided meditation aided by background music helps to center the group, reduce distractions, and build a collective focus, enabling more productive discussions and creative outcomes.” As I reflect on that and think about what you just said, Mort, I was thinking too. This is going back like 20 years ago. I remember attending a training. It was four or five days long. And the facilitator, after every break, you know, there would be a 10 or 15 minute break several times a day would had a set of chimes at the front of the room. And every time that it was time to reassemble, she would gently go through a pattern of ringing the chimes. And it took five seconds.

Dave Stachowiak [00:20:26]:
But there was something so powerful about that as a transition, as a recentering to the point where 20 years later, I remember it, and it was one of the best trainings I ever attended over all the years that I’ve been attending trainings. And, and it was just one of many things that made it good. But it was really interesting how even five seconds of bringing in music or sound in an intentional way in order to center people would refocus the discussion in such a beautiful way. And I’ve, I’ve remembered that. And I thought, gosh, I should do more of that in my work. Having an audio podcast, like, what an opportunity, right? But oftentimes we don’t even think to do something like that. So small, so purposeful.

Mort Sherman [00:21:10]:
Yeah, that’s such a beautiful example of intention, A mindful action. And in the beginning of the book, there’s this other phrase that, that I thought of. And because I wasn’t raised with music in the way Sarah, lots of people have been, or perhaps you have been. It’s this question of what’s the mindful spark? How do you have people think the way you just described 20 years ago, what you experienced? How do you have people think, think like that? And so our idea is to share examples, to go on podcast and write articles and to go into Psychology Today and to push out concepts time and again about how we can be more deliberate. There’s another piece besides that bowl, that chime that was. I mean, that, that’s kind of. That just almost like a. A nice response.

Mort Sherman [00:22:01]:
I don’t want to say Pavlovian response, but it is, you know, we become accustomed to that kind of sound and react in a certain way. Good. That’s the idea behind that mindful action that, that opportunity. But you know what followed, Dave, Right after that sound, there was a moment of silence and there was a moment of calm because you knew that there was more coming. And you waited because it again resonated deep within you. And so I also have thought a lot about how leaders can take that chime, can take that moment, could take that song and create that silence just for a second, which leads then to reflection, to deeper reflection with the group about whether it’s writing down in a journal or recentering the word. You just used in some ways focusing our attention on the work at hand.

Mort Sherman [00:22:58]:
So if you’re looking at a strategic plan, if you’re looking at setting goals in a classroom with kids, if you’re looking at becoming a corporate leader, introducing a note product, there is that opportunity to use that sound in that moment to quiet the brain and to think about how we could all work together. You know, getting up and standing and cheering is one way of going about it. But what you describe that you remember after 20 years, there’s a reason that that hit you very deeply and still lives with you today. And so kudos. I wish I, you know, tell me the name of the person who did it, but I bet you every great leader, again, go to. Go to FDR and the fireside chats about how his melodic voice did that for people. He didn’t use music during his fireside chats, but there was music right before that. It’s almost like that bowler that chime saying, here comes a president who’s going to talk to us quietly about moving ahead as a country in the midst of this awful depression.

Dave Stachowiak [00:24:00]:
The second invitation you make is creating team playlists. And I’ve seen leaders do this, but very infrequently. And I think that there’s a real opportunity to lean in on this. And it goes back to something we were talking about earlier, which is community. Like, what an opportunity to bring in community into a team, isn’t it?

Mort Sherman [00:24:21]:
Yeah. You know, we wrote in that section also, another phrase that’s become my favorite, one of my favorites is that there’s this feedback loop of the familiar. When we create playlists, it’s really nice. I don’t know if you have a playlist or not. We go back to at the end of the program talking about mine, but, you know, you know, what song is going to start or, you know, if you want to go into this mood or that mood, and in this question of creating community and engaging folks and making them connected, is to ask the question about what music you listen to, what is important to you? And so it is this idea again, of resonating, of listening, of responding to those around you, rather than saying, boy, have I got a great playlist for you. You’re gonna love this music. And somebody’s gonna say, well, that’s a bunch of hooey. Yeah, I don’t like that music, you know.

Mort Sherman [00:25:18]:
And so this idea of building community and networking and engaging others is, again, a sign of respect and resonance for those around us. And our daughter’s a teacher at a middle school. One of our daughters, not Sarah. But, gosh, can you imagine? You know, my hat’s off to teachers everywhere, but to middle school children. But walk into a school, a principal might have some music playing. And just to pick up on your question, wouldn’t it be interesting to say to the kids or to the teachers, what songs would you like to hear when you come to school or to the teachers, what do you do in the classroom? What songs do you think are really important? Final example, I was working with a guy who teaches at one of the local universities, and he asked his doctoral students, he said, so, what are your favorite, favorite songs? And he created the playlist. And then from that…

Mort Sherman [00:26:09]:
I kind of led him into this conversation about breaking away from that feedback of the familiar. Said, what might be the songs that others are listening to? What might. What else might we listen? If you love country, if you love classical, or if you love the oldies, that’s your world. But how do you learn to respect others and through that, create a playlist which respects those around us?

Dave Stachowiak [00:26:36]:
Indeed. And you were asking about playlists a moment ago, and I have a number of playlists, and a lot of them are centered around a theme like motivation or out on a road trip or mellow. There’s a whole bunch of them. And I think even combining those first two invitations of having a team put together a playlist, maybe around, what is the music that motivates you? What’s the music that puts you in a reflective mood? And you could even, like, as a leader, have a different song from a different team member at the start of a meeting about strategy or meeting about motivation or whatever. And to your point, it’s not going to resonate with everyone, but what an opportunity to, like, bring in community. And why does the song speak to me as a team member and even invite people to share a bit about that? What a great way to help people learn about each other and learn about culture and preferences and community. How cool.

Dave Stachowiak [00:27:30]:
How cool to be able to do that.

Mort Sherman [00:27:31]:
Yeah. And, you know, just think, you captured it so beautifully, Dave. And I was thinking, well, what else might you do? Let’s see, how many people are reading novels today or reading newspapers? Not as many as I think should, but everybody listens to some kind of music or not. In fact, there’s some International Studies that 70% of people across the world spend maybe an hour or two, whether it’s just background music or not. But music is that lever, that opportunity that goes beyond any other kind of medium that we have whether it’s even voice which brings us or gives us opportunity. I love what you described as saying, hey, here’s, you know, hey, Dave, why don’t you play us your song and talk to us about it? And then the next meeting, somebody else could do that.

Mort Sherman [00:28:16]:
What a wonderful way of bringing and engaging folks to some part of our lives that we already have brought into our everyday existence. You know, that listening to and thinking about music.

Dave Stachowiak [00:28:29]:
Yeah. And bridging the gap to be really purposeful in the context of the meeting and the work too. Like what a great way to make those happen. And which is a great lead in to the final invitation, which is using music to reinforce a message or theme. And you write on this, “Music’s role in motivation is particularly significant. Certain types of music can energize the team, while others can help individuals focus or unwind, depending on the needs of the moment.” And I think about that, I think like, what a great opportunity for leaders, especially if we’ve not thought about this before, to utilize a song or music or a playlist to set a tone for a conversation, a meeting, a change, and to just stop and think about that a bit of like, what would be the thing that might set the tone for a message or a theme or something new we’re doing or a vision? I don’t think hardly anyone ever thinks to do that.

Dave Stachowiak [00:29:25]:
What a fun way to reinforce that. And again, it’s not about the leader being the sage on the stage to being the only one sending that message. You’re utilizing the music, the community, the playlist to reinforce so much of that message.

Mort Sherman [00:29:38]:
Yeah. You know, there’s a song and I’m gonna hum a few lines, Dave, and you’re gonna join me in a moment. But there is a through line to who we are as people that goes back 40. And we discovered one of the first instruments created, I think out of a vulture’s thigh bone or something. And they created the flute. But even before words, there was tone, there was music. And this idea of establishing a tone and connecting intentionally is really, really important. And there’s something deep within us.

Mort Sherman [00:30:17]:
Whether it’s going to church and you sit there and you hear that music, or there’s a familiar song or the national anthem. Saying it, it does something to us. It creates something in us. So you ready, Dave? Let’s see how quickly you could pick up on my non melodious voice and recognize this song. I’ll tell you why I’m doing it. Are you ready?

Dave Stachowiak [00:30:40]:
I’m ready.

Mort Sherman [00:30:47]:
*humming* Do you know the song.

Dave Stachowiak [00:30:51]:
*singing* that saved a wretch like me?

Mort Sherman [00:30:54]:
I want to know, Dave, whether or not you’ve ever sung before in any of your podcasts?

Dave Stachowiak [00:30:58]:
I don’t know if I have. So maybe this is a new thing for us.

Mort Sherman [00:31:01]:
We have a nice voice. You should do it more often. Do you know when that song was first created?

Dave Stachowiak [00:31:07]:
Oh, gosh, that. I don’t know.

Mort Sherman [00:31:09]:
1750S, there was a man who was a slave owner coming over from Great Britain back to the United States, and there was a terrible storm overnight and woke up the next morning having survived the storm, looked at the sun and wrote that song Amazing Grace. And do you know, George Washington had as part of his hymnal and every single president, if you remember President Obama singing acapella, singing Amazing Grace at the church after their killings in South Carolina. And you can go through George Bush and every president, I think, at one point or another have used Amazing Grace. And so there is this I idea of using music intentionally, seeing how quickly you recognize that song. And there are probably 50 other songs I could start where it quickly resonated, connected, created the groove, which then builds a culture and an environment which connects us and gives us common purpose.

Dave Stachowiak [00:32:12]:
You mentioned to me previously that between the two of you, you and Sarah, that Sarah’s really the musician you are, following in her footsteps and thinking about and thinking about so much of what you’ve written in the book. And I’m curious, as you have done that and worked with her, put together the book, thought about music and the workplace and in leadership, what, if anything, have you changed your mind on through that process?

Mort Sherman [00:32:40]:
Yeah, the part that is so fascinating to me, you learn from grandchildren, but, boy, here’s what I’ve learned from a grandson who had to be now 15. And. And I was saying, well, what are your playlists? And he gave me this look like, grandpa, you really don’t know how to ask a question, do you? You know, kids look at you. And he said, I used to listen to country because my father likes country, but not so much anymore. And then I used to listen to classic, it goes on. Sarah’s a classical musician. Not so much anymore. And then I used to listen to the 90s, 90s, because my mom likes 90s.

Mort Sherman [00:33:23]:
And you and grandma like Simon and Garfunkel and the Beatles. So I tried that, too. And then I tried indie music, you know, this idea that’s not commercially based. And he said, you know, now I’m in theater in high school, and I listen to show tunes. And so what I’ve changed my mind is that that playlist and the music is not the music for life. And out of the mouths of babes, as Art Linklater used to say when I was growing up in the 60s watching television, out of the mouths of babes come reality and truth, which is through our lives. Music changes, our tastes change. Yet how it impacts us as people somehow resonates and continues like amazing grace as a thread throughout our lives.

Dave Stachowiak [00:34:07]:
Mort Sherman is the co author of Resonant Minds: The Transformative Power of Music One Note at a Time. Mort, thank you so much for your work and thanks to Sarah’s work.

Mort Sherman [00:34:17]:
Well, thank you Dave.

Dave Stachowiak [00:34:25]:
If this conversation was helpful for you three related episodes I’m recommending. One of them is episode 688, the Power of leadership through Hospitality. Will Guidara was my guest on that episode, New York Times bestselling author of Unreasonable Hospitality. He’s a fabulous storyteller and has an important and critical message for leaders of bringing hospitality into our work. I think episode 688 is such a beautiful complement to this conversation. If you haven’t heard it, I think Will’s perspective is so important. Also recommended episode 719, how to Better manage your emotions. Ethan Kross was my guest on that episode and we talked about the importance for all of us of being able to manage emotions in our lives.

Dave Stachowiak [00:35:07]:
But I think that’s critically important for leaders. We of course, course show up at work as human beings. How can we not? We should. And we also do need to manage our emotions, perhaps more so than the average person, because we are getting all kinds of different emotions coming at us every single day in the context of the work that most of us have as leaders. Ethan in that conversation I talked about one of the strategies and tactics for doing that is through music and our playlists and what we listen to and what we listen to at certain times. I think, again, a great complement to this conversation and how so we bring some of the things we often think about just in our personal lives to help us to enhance and do our professional work. Even better, episode 719 for that. And of course all this conversation of music has got me thinking about episode 7 39, what leaders should learn from Taylor Swift.

Dave Stachowiak [00:35:59]:
Kevin Evers was my guest on that episode, senior editor at Harvard Business Review. We looked at the business behind what Taylor Swift has done and how she’s become the entertainment and economic powerhouse that she has, and the strategic lessons that you can learn whether you’re a fan of her music or not. There is so much strategy, perspective and leadership to understand about what’s worked and what hasn’t for her over the years. Episode 739 A fun conversation, but also some key critical skills that will help you think about how you’re leading in your strategy. I think a bit differently as well. All of those episodes of course you can find on the coachingforleaders.com website. If you have not yet set up your free membership, I’m inviting you to do so today so you can access process what’s relevant to you right now at coachingforleaders.com all of the episodes are available on all the apps publicly, but we don’t have the ability on the apps to be able to help you search by topic. So we’ve created that on the website and this episode is going to be filed under Team Leadership.

Dave Stachowiak [00:37:01]:
We’ve had many conversations over the years on how to lead a team effectively. It’s one of the questions I am asked again and again from our members and listeners. Listeners for resources so much inside of the free membership and the episode library. Go ahead, set up your free membership at coachingforleaders.com once you do go into the Episode library and just look under Team Leadership, you’re going to see many conversations in addition to this one that will really help support you in moving forward in leading your team more effectively. And every time I have a conversation on the podcast today’s with Mort is no exception. I just learned so much. I’m challenged and I think about things I haven’t thought about before. I think about how critical that is for all of us, especially at the key inflection points of our careers that every single leader experiences.

Dave Stachowiak [00:37:50]:
The Coaching for Leaders Academy helps leaders to elevate their leadership at those inflection points. It’s group coaching entirely led by me and done in community with five to six other peer leaders who are all working together to help each other move forward. If you happen to be at an inflection point right now and we might help, go over to coachingforleaders.com/academy. There’s more details there on the entire program and also an opportunity to join our early invitation list. It won’t be long until we will have our next round of applications open for the Academy. Details again at coachingforleaders.com/opportunity to hop on the early invitation list. Coaching for Leaders is edited by Andrew Kroeger. Production support is provided by Sierra Priest.

Dave Stachowiak [00:38:40]:
Next Monday, I’m glad to welcome Lorraine K. Lee to the show. We are going to be having a conversation about how to make small talk with executives an important skill for all of us in our careers. Join me for that conversation with Lorraine. Have a great week and see you back on Monday.