682: Ways to Move Forward Well, with Bonni Stachowiak

Dave Stachowiak [00:00:00]:
Bonni is here today, and we are responding to your questions. This is Coaching for Leaders episode 682.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:00:08]:
Production Credit: Produced by Innovate Learning, maximizing human potential.

Dave Stachowiak [00:00:11]:
Greetings to you from Orange County, California. This is Coaching for Leaders, and I’m your host, Dave Stachowiak. Leaders aren’t born, they’re made. And this weekly show helps you discover leadership wisdom through insightful conversations. And a few times a year, we open up the episode to your questions. If you have a question that you would like us to consider for Q&A episode, I hope you go over to coachingforleaders.com/feedback. We would love to consider it.

Dave Stachowiak [00:00:47]:
And I have back with me, Bonni, for helping me to respond to some of these questions today. Hello, Bonni.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:00:54]:
Hey, Dave. Thanks for having me back, and thanks to everyone who’s written in with these questions. I do need to tell you that the other day, my friend called me, Dave, and she said- we’ve been friends for a long time. She says, this is the first time I think I’ve ever listened to your voice mail. And she said, you do this really- I don’t know if she said weird, but she says, you do this thing. You and I already knew what she’s talking about before she even tells me, and I’m trying to explain to her. Yes. It’s part, pause, punch, something something.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:01:24]:
It’s a Dale Carnegie thing, and so I think listeners may benefit by having you share briefly about how we may, you know, on our voice mails or when we meet someone, or when we’re on a podcast, how we might share our name to increase I don’t know- I think it does a few things for us to increase our the the ability they might have to remember our name, to understand it, to make those early connections.

Dave Stachowiak [00:01:49]:
Yes. Indeed. It’s a little tip from Dale Carnegie that I learned as an instructor. And we used to teach people how to say your name in a way that other people can hear it. Because oftentimes people say their names and especially if it’s a long name like ours they’ll say something like hi my name is Dave Stachowiak. And if you’ve never heard that person’s name before, you’re like, okay. What was the first name? What was the last name? What are even the letters involved in that? So one of the things I learned at Carnegie is to separate your first and last name clearly and then to kind of punch out your last name and not just let it trail off. So rather than saying my name is Dave Stachowiak, I would say my name is Dave Stachowiak. And that way people can hear it much more clearly. So if you, like me, before I went through Carnegie, sometimes have people say, what was your name again? What did you say? Or if you have a difficult name, I think it’s a nice way to help your name be a little bit more understandable for others.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:02:52]:
Yes. And, we’ve got questions today. And the first one is from Qasim, and Qasim writes, “how do I get out of reactive day to day approaches and start leading and conversating with intention? I’m finding it difficult to break the cycle because I’m just so darn busy. At the same time though, if I don’t break the cycle somehow, I fear I’ll build some really bad habits that’ll throw any intentionality out the window.”

Dave Stachowiak [00:03:22]:
Oh, Qasim, so many of us resonate with this question. In fact, Qasim posted this in our membership portal, Bonni. He’s one of our academy alums and a whole bunch of people like the question right away because it is something I think almost universally that we struggle with the day to day whirlwind as Chris McChesney from Franklin Covey calls it of stuff that we all have to deal with every single day. And leaders, of course, are in the middle of it. The requests, the situations that come up that we can anticipate. And how do you ever get traction on moving forward on the important stuff, quadrant 2, speaking of Franklin Covey, important but not urgent things, which we are all charged to do in our roles. And so, Qasim, I have a couple of thoughts. First of all, is what does success look like? So you mentioned conversating with intention and starting to lead.

Dave Stachowiak [00:04:22]:
That could mean a lot of different things. So I would begin with the question, what does success look like in 60 days or 90 days or whatever time frame feels right to you as far as how you’re thinking out and planning and if I am successful at doing this conversating in this leading, what would I see in the organization, in my team, for myself that would be an indicator that I’ve done that. And then is to work backwards. So once you know what that is specifically, what’s something you can find that is a very small action that begins to move you forward in that direction? And this is one of the things that we do in the academy, Bonni, is we try to get really specific on something that we can all do in 5 minutes a day and make it a very, very small next step so that it’s doable. Because most of us don’t have an hour or 2 or however long a day to take on something really big and this is one of the things that I find myself doing with our members more than anything else, Bonni, which is trying to invite our members to do less because our tendency is to set the bar really high for ourselves. I’m gonna sit down and I’m gonna do planning for next quarter for the next hour and a half this afternoon. And the whirlwind jumps in and takes over. Right? So I would set something really specific, Qasim, just like you did when you were in the academy.

Dave Stachowiak [00:05:58]:
And by the way, you did this extraordinarily well on many of the other things. So you’re just applying the exact same principle to this of what something in 5 minutes I can do that begins to move me in that direction. So part of that’s for the traction itself, but part of it is also for the feeling, the psychology behind it. Because if you take 5 minutes and you pick something really small and you have success completing it, May not be a big thing as far as movement, but it’s a big thing as far as how you feel about it. You feel a sense of success at the end of the day. And then the next day, you do the same thing. 5 minutes. So figure out what’s the outcome.

Dave Stachowiak [00:06:37]:
Something small to start with. You feel that sense of a win. And the thing that I do that I find really helpful is I have a couple of accountability buddies. Bonni and I have a friend named Jackie, Jackie and I talk once a week. And one of the things that we do is we set kind of like, okay. Here’s something I’m gonna be doing big picture over the next week. My friend Scott and I talk daily, and we kind are more granular on our task. But Jackie and I talk regularly each week, and we kind of are looking at more at the big picture.

Dave Stachowiak [00:07:06]:
And this is just me on how I work, so I don’t know if this will work for you, but I just need to get started. Once I get started on something, I’m generally gonna move on it. So when I think out 60 to 90 days on something, I generally don’t map out, like, here’s all of the things I need to do in order. I know for a lot of people that does work. Just for me, it doesn’t. What I do need to do is I need to identify what’s the first step. And just yesterday, Jack and I were on the phone, and I said, okay. Next week, here’s 3 things that I need to have at least started on.

Dave Stachowiak [00:07:38]:
Will you ask me about them next week? And having someone else who will check-in on me and be a bit of an accountability buddy helps because even though they’re important and even though I need to move on them and I’ve made them really small, I’m likely to figure out a way to not make movement if I don’t have someone ask me about it. So another thing you might consider, Qasim, is who else could be that accountability buddy? Maybe someone within our community or within your professional network that or maybe a friend or family member that says, okay. Hey. We both agreed to do this. And just that little bit of accountability just helps you to get started.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:08:14]:
Qasim, I have 3 ideas for you. And they’re also ideas for me too because these are practices that when I get off of doing them, I really feel the lack of them in my life. So here they are. First off, I suggest that we start the day with something. Well, not with just anything. We start the day with a quick reminder to ourselves that we are able to choose, and this could be something as small as making your bed. I know that this is not a habit that I practice on a daily basis. But in the times when I do, I literally just feel like it’s a tremendous victory.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:08:53]:
I’m not the first person to have discovered this. This is a practice that is made use of in, many leadership context and just that idea that we lead ourselves in that first choice that we might make when we get out of bed. Another idea for starting the day could be something as simple as stretching. It’s good for the body. It’s good for the mind. It’s good for us to start the day with that kind of flexibility and reminder of how important it is to be able to adapt to our environments. And many people who practice meditation or are a part of a faith community might start their days with meditation or with prayers. Just this reminder of a centering and that choice that we make to begin our days.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:09:38]:
The second idea that I have for you, and, of course, for me, is to think about and listen to our language. So we change from I’ve got to to I get to. We change from I’m not very good at that to I am becoming someone who. And if you don’t like any of those examples, maybe we can take it from Yoda. Do or do not, there is no try. And the 3rd idea that I have for you, and again for me, is called the big three. And when I practice this, I feel victorious at the end of the day, and that is starting out my day and writing down, in my case, digitally writing down somewhere, what are the three most important things that I’m going to do in a day. And as you can hear in my voice, I struggle with this sometimes because I make the things too big.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:10:32]:
Shrink these things down to the smallest next action that you can take to turn your intentions into action. And if you, like me, sometimes make them too big, you’re gonna wind up in this perpetuating feeling of failure versus shrink it down 3 very doable things, and even consider blocking out time in your calendar. And knowing that that is the time where you can make that forward movement on the most important things in your day.

Dave Stachowiak [00:11:03]:
The next question is from Aruj. Aruj writes, “my current role has me in a office with my manager, and their best friend at work likes to come in often just to gossip multiple times a day. What’s the best way to handle such disruption? I’m not sure how to handle this so that the interruptions and gossip stops while not jeopardizing my future career move for experience. I dislike interruptions, don’t partake in office politics, and like to keep my life private in the workplace. I’m able to accomplish all my tasks for the day within 3 to 4 hours max. What’s your advice for navigating this?”

Bonni Stachowiak [00:11:38]:
When I read your question, I instantly felt so much empathy for you. I cannot stand to be interrupted. Dave knows this, our third story of our house is just a loft, and that that’s where my office is. If I hear Dave on the 1st floor walking around, I will literally anticipate interruptions sometimes. I also really, really dislike interruption. On the other hand, I wanna push back on one thing that you wrote, and that is this idea that you don’t partake in office politics. My idea is we all partake in office politics, and by you deciding that you don’t is a political act in and of itself. So in terms of this situation, I’m so glad that you’re writing and asking this.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:12:29]:
I’m so glad that you’re reflecting on something bigger than just the irritation, and I felt it so much and felt so bad for you, how hard it would be to constantly be interrupted like that. And so I have a couple of practical ideas for you, but do really wanna encourage you to continue to reflect because there’s the bigger picture thing of you not wanting your boundary setting to harm your future job prospects in your career. So one very practical thing, can you use noise canceling headphones? Would that be something that you would be able to work out where it doesn’t look like you’ve disengaged from work? Would it very fact are using them to be able to engage more fully in your work. I mentioned sometimes the challenge of hearing noises in my environment and thinking I’m about to be interrupted even if I most certainly am not, just the thought of that I might be being distracting to me. So if I put my noise canceling headphones, I’m not hearing anybody moving about the house, and students at my university have recommended to me music called lo fi music. And that’s the type of music that you’re not gonna start start singing along to or anything and can really help focus. Something that I’ve done in terms of interruptions where noise canceling headphones, in my case, I think back to when they didn’t exist, but I would try to keep something aside for if I was interrupted. And it’s not like somebody else is talking around me, but we’re literally someone has come into my office.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:13:54]:
I remember this from years ago. I would just keep in a drawer things that need to be delivered. So I would have the relationship and say hello, but sometimes people really like to stick around a long time. So I would all of a sudden have my deliveries that I needed to make and I’d have my official looking folder. Thank you so much for coming by my office. And then lo and behold, I just happen to have somewhere that I needed to go. So you might think about small interventions like that. My encouragement to you would be not to say that you’re doing that.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:14:26]:
So this irritation that you feel, this anger that you feel, my suggestion to you would be not to let that spill over to this person who you report to now. That is my suggestion for you. Some of this more judging language around the gossip. I mean, I feel that visceral sense of frustration as you share it. So you might just you have these strategies, but we’re gonna try not to let the anger spill over into that other person. So is there something that you just happen to need to deliver? I was wondering, could it just happen to be that you need to place a call? I can’t picture your work context. So would that be something that you could do? Is there someone that you may need to go visit and strategize on something and collaborate? I wasn’t sure the extent to which it might seem weird if you’re not at your desk, you know, that sort of thing. By the way, I’m not saying never to have conflict with this individual.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:15:20]:
Setting boundaries is something that we need to be able to do with those that we report to, with our peers, as well as with people that report to us. So I’m kind of talking about more coping strategies, but there also may come a time where you do need to confront this person and have what is called a difficult conversation, my suggestion to you would be not to let your anger flare up so much that that difficult conversation happens in an unplanned spontaneous way where you just completely unload on this person after all of your months of frustration, that’s not going to be helpful to them. It’s also not gonna be helpful to you. So if these these coping strategies don’t really work for you or for whatever reason you do need to plan a difficult conversation, that’s something you want to do with intentionality and with wisdom.

Dave Stachowiak [00:16:12]:
Aruj, I’m gonna echo what Bonni said first and several other things too. Empathy. Boy, the 1st year I worked at Dale Carnegie I was in a open office setting and it was because we just didn’t have enough space in the office facility we were in and I was in a place where people were walking by I was literally in the path of people entering and leaving the office all day long in conversations and I am the kind of person much like Bonni that I needed to be just silent I can’t handle interruptions because it completely throws me off my workflow And everyone was super gracious. People let me use their offices when they weren’t there, and everyone was aware that it was an issue. And yet it was by far the worst productive year of my life for many reasons. And one of them was the fact that I just got interrupted a lot. So I hear you and I’m so sorry that you are dealing with this. So first of all, to echo something Bonni said, noise canceling headphones? Yes.

Dave Stachowiak [00:17:08]:
Oh my goodness. The technology is amazing. Bonni convinced me to buy some AirPods Pro about a year ago. I had never used noise canceling headphones on an airplane or anywhere else. And it is incredible what you can do with that and an app that plays white noise or open up YouTube and play white noise on noise canceling headphones. And I am able to actually work in a Starbucks now, which I was never able to do. So try that. If you haven’t tried that, a couple $100 could solve this entire problem for you and make it really, really great.

Dave Stachowiak [00:17:41]:
So try that. I love some of the things the creative things Bonni suggested. The beauty is it’s you mentioned it only takes you 3 or 4 hours a day to do your work. So you’ve got the margin to say, hey. I’m gonna get up and go have coffee or go have a conversation with someone else. Yes. By the way, to the office politics, Bonni said. Right? We think about office politics as negative.

Dave Stachowiak [00:18:04]:
And in this context, that’s the conversation we’re having. Office politics is also really positive. And one of the things you mentioned is being able to have future career opportunities. And I would nudge you a bit, Aruj, to look at the margin that you have and the conversations that it sounds like other people are doing in the workplace. Yes. Some of them very annoying to you. Right? But how could you jump up maybe in that situation and you go find someone else and you have that water cooler conversation or you ask something about their work or you follow-up on something. And I think a little bit of that could go a long way.

Dave Stachowiak [00:18:41]:
So you might turn this into an opportunity for you. And if you do decide, at some point, either the noise canceling isn’t working or this becomes so difficult for you to get work done that it’s interrupting your ability to be productive. Everything yes to what Bonni said on setting boundaries. And the way I would frame that is- you’re not going to stop your manager and their friend from gossiping in the office. What you might potentially shift a bit is if you approach that conversation with your manager if you decide to have it and say, hey. Could I share something about me? This is something that I run into, and it’s just it’s really hard for me if there’s someone else talking around me. I have a difficult time focusing and it’s preventing me from being able to be productive and to do my work. And anytime I’m trying to make a request of someone in the workplace that’s asking them to shift their behavior, I try to also frame it into the bigger picture, the nobler motive.

Dave Stachowiak [00:19:42]:
Right? I think probably your manager wants you to be productive in the workplace, generally speaking. So if you do decide to make a request, framing it in the this is not just my personal preference. It’s something that will actually help me to be more productive and get traction on my work and have a better work product and all of those things. Right? And to make that really kind request, and it’s nothing about gossip. It’s nothing about your friend. It’s just purely that. And maybe you see. Maybe it changes the behavior a little bit.

Dave Stachowiak [00:20:10]:
And if it doesn’t, it doesn’t. And you do the other things, and you do the best you can. So I hope that’s helpful, Aruj, as far as a starting point on how you might think about this.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:20:19]:
Dave, that part where you said, there’s just something about me. I love that that resonated so much for me of how to bring this into the conversation, and it reminded me of episode 678 that you did with Elaine Lynn Herring, where she talked about from where I sit.

Dave Stachowiak [00:20:39]:
Ah, Yeah.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:20:39]:
And I love that phrase too. So that was just like a variation of that. From where I sit is just so much of a, not deflector. That’s the wrong word. So much more of a I can’t think of the word.

Dave Stachowiak [00:20:51]:
It is on one it’s like a both end. It’s on one hand ownership of what my experience is, but it also really beautifully in just a couple words says, but it’s just me. It doesn’t have to be your experience.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:21:04]:
Yeah. Yeah. That’s just such wonderful advice if Aruj does decide to bring it up. Our next question comes from Alice. “Thanks so much for this awesome curated set of resources. I was wondering if any come to mind that you can recommend for me on a particular position I’m in. At work, I have this insane opportunity to choose one of 3 very cool roles. Who gets this? Each has its own benefits and challenges and are each very different.”

Bonni Stachowiak [00:21:37]:
“I’m really struggling to figure out how to decide. I’m thinking hearing someone talk about decisions or opportunities or career paths. I’ve never been someone who has a strong pull in any particular career and have held many varied positions all quite successfully.” Thanks so much for your question, Alice. I know Dave has much to share. I just wanted to share one quick thought that I had before I pass it over to him, and that is I too haven’t really been strategic about a career path of I wanna move here and move here and move here. Although, I always have been someone very passionate and curious about teaching and learning, so that kind of fits with much of my career trajectory. But I will say one thing that you that you didn’t necessarily bring up in your decision making process that I think could be even more important than which of these three jobs would be, who would you report to in each of these three jobs? There’s so much overwhelming data that who we report to makes such a difference in terms of our job satisfaction, our retention, and our ability to grow.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:22:51]:
Because when we have someone who can help us thrive, who can get to know us, and help challenge us and encourage us along the way, it makes such a difference. So I’ll throw that in as one factor, but I know Dave has much to share beyond that.

Dave Stachowiak [00:23:05]:
I’m so glad you mentioned that, Bonni. I didn’t even think about that. Gosh. Such a key consideration. Alice, the direct answer to your question is Annie Duke’s book, How to Decide. We had her on the podcast a while back. I’ll mention it afterwards with the link and the episode number. She has this beautiful framework of creating a decision tree and thinking out a lot of us learned at some point early on to do, like, a positive negative list.

Dave Stachowiak [00:23:34]:
That’s not the best way to approach it. It’s a starting point. But Annie really has a wonderful framework for that. That book, that episode as a starting point, I think will give you the framework that you’re looking for to think about, okay, what does that look like for me as far as how do I make that decision process in a really healthy and research backed way? Your question got me thinking though of just my own story as well. One of the reasons that I started this podcast back in 2011, one of 3 reasons was it was a bit of a side project for me because I thought I was going down the route of academia, like Bonnie, of being a professor eventually. And this is prop up it was probably around 2018. And in 2018 ish, a opportunity came up locally at a university where a position opened up for a business professor. And, Bonni, I think you even sent it to me.

Dave Stachowiak [00:24:40]:
It wasn’t at your university. It was at a different university. And it was like, Alice, it was exactly what I had planned all along. It was the perfect role. It was the right institution. It was the thing, like, I’d sort of been on the trajectory to do all this time. And so I pulled up the application and printed it out, and I set it on my desk. And I started thinking about it.

Dave Stachowiak [00:25:07]:
Okay. How am I gonna make this work if I have this role as a professor and I have committee responsibilities in teaching classes. And how am I gonna do that and still have the podcast and still facilitate our academy? Our academy was underway at the time. It was not something I was doing full time with my entire time, but it was a big chunk of my time. And I thought about it for a couple days, and I kept coming back to the realization that I was trying to get my career to more for around Coaching for Leaders because that’s what I really wanted to do. Instead of really thinking about what I thought I was excited about, which was taking on this role maybe and applying for this role that I was really confident, by the way, I could have probably gotten. And after thinking about it for a day or 2, I realized that’s not what I really want to do. That’s not what I’m excited about.

Dave Stachowiak [00:26:07]:
And so I took the application off my desk, and I tossed it over here next to me in my recycling bin after, like, 2 days. And I thought this is probably not the smartest financial decision to make. And because all of the benefits and all the perks and the stability that comes from being a professor. But I did think, at least I’ll be happy, whatever happens. And the irony of the whole thing is one of the reasons I was going down that path is thinking, oh, it’s really stable and it’s really safe. And, of course, the pandemic happened, like, 18 months later. Right? And that university went through a bunch of layoffs as so many universities did during that time. And this thing that seemed like a sure thing and would have been at any other time in the last 100 years.

Dave Stachowiak [00:26:59]:
Right? I almost certainly would have lost my job, and I wouldn’t be doing what I’m doing today, at least not to the extent. And the reason that I share this story with you, Alice, is because I have had this point happen at several points in my career where I’ve reached a pretty substantial fork in the road, and I needed to decide something one way or the other. And sometimes it was really clear, like, what was the good financial decision, what was the good career decision, and a couple of times it really wasn’t. And at the end of the day, what’s worked for me is when everything else was kind up in the air and it wasn’t predictable is I’ve always gone with my heart. And it’s worked out. It’s really worked out.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:27:47]:
Dave, you sharing that story gets me back to Aruj’s question because you did make choices and you went with your heart. But even if you had your heart had been wrong, you also have just been a person who thrives in relationship with others. And when we build a fabric of relationships, even when industries change, job situations change, we maybe we made a decision we regret. Those relationships carry us forward into unexpected ways and help to expand our imagination for what’s possible.

Dave Stachowiak [00:28:31]:
If this conversation was helpful, a few related episodes I’d recommend to you. One of them is episode 177, how to start a conversation with anyone. Mark Sieverkropp was my guest on that episode, and I’m thinking about it because of Aruj’s mention in his question of not doing office politics. And we often do think about office politics as a negative, and yet it also is a positive. And part of positive politics is starting relationships and having conversations, and yet it is a struggle. Some people that comes really naturally too. And one of the things I’ve learned over the years is that didn’t come naturally to me, especially earlier in my career because I just didn’t know how. I didn’t know how to, like, kick off a conversation well and actually make that flow and to really listen well and engage with the other person.

Dave Stachowiak [00:29:21]:
And I’ve learned that there’s a lot of people out there like me that this is a learned skill. Right? Leaders aren’t born, they’re made. We all have skills that we need to learn. The things that come naturally to some of us just don’t come naturally to others. Episode 177. Step by step. How to start a conversation with someone else? A great way to just begin in nudging ourselves forward in positive politics in the workplace.

Dave Stachowiak [00:29:45]:
And speaking of politics, I’d also recommend episode 328, how to deal with opponents and adversaries. Peter Block was my guest on that episode. We talked about his framework for how to deal with the people that we often think of as more difficult, the people that don’t agree with us or that we don’t trust in the workplace, and how to think about politics much more holistically and look at positive politics and also to be able to proactively think about how do we handle those where maybe we don’t have as much natural alignment. I’ve learned so much from that model over the years. So many of our members and listeners have told me that Peter’s framework has been so helpful to them on thinking about how to work with the most difficult people in the workplace and approach those conversations. Episode 328, a great place to start.

Dave Stachowiak [00:30:31]:
Also recommended episode 499, the way to make better decisions. I mentioned earlier the work of Annie Duke. In that conversation, we talk about the decision tree and her framework, really a wonderful useful framework. If you have a big decision in front of you right now, episode 499, a great place to start. And then finally, Bonni mentioned, of course, the recent episode with Elaine Lin Hering, the power of unlearning silence and how we can do that better. All of those episodes you can find on the coachingforleaders.com website. And I’m inviting you today, if you haven’t already, to take a moment to set up your free membership at coaching for leaders.com. It is gonna give you the ability to search by topic all of the episodes in the library since 2011, and we have sorted them all by topics so that you can easily go in there, look at the episode library, look at the several dozen topic areas, and you can find what’s most relevant to you right now. We send all of the episodes out to all the directories, but the podcast apps don’t do a great job at helping you to search by topic. And so that’s what the website’s for.

Dave Stachowiak [00:31:36]:
That’s what the free membership is for. It’s one of those key benefits that’s there. And, I mentioned in the response to Alice that when I started the podcast in 2011, initially, it was a side project, and it was really uncertain for a while how this was all gonna work out career wise, financially, all those things. And one of the things that I’m proudest of over the years is that we’ve really centered our work and our business around the success of our members. And that’s why you don’t hear sponsorships. You don’t hear advertising on every episode because we’ve really zeroed in on working to support the outcomes and the results for our members. And so many of you have showed up and allowed us the privilege to support you more. Thank you for all of you who’ve done that over the years.

Dave Stachowiak [00:32:24]:
And a great starting point for you, if you are looking for more, is Coaching for Leaders Plus. It is an opportunity to hear a lot more from me that’ll support you each week. One of the things I’m doing is writing a weekly journal entry that comes to you on email. Oftentimes, I’m responding to a question that one of our members has asked or a situation I’m thinking about that I know will help you this week in the workplace to move forward on your leadership skills. If you’re looking for a bit more support, Coaching for Leaders Plus is a place to begin to consider. Go over to coachingforleaders.plus, and thank you all for continuing to allow us to be an almost entirely member supported organization. Coaching for Leaders is edited by Andrew Kroeger. Production support is provided by Sierra Priest.

Dave Stachowiak [00:33:13]:
Next Monday, I’m glad to welcome David Novak back to the show. He’s the former CEO of Yum Brands, and we’re gonna be having a conversation about how to create something bigger than its parts. Join me for that conversation with David, and I hope you have a great week. Take care.