730: How to Take Initiative, with Tom Henschel

Dave Stachowiak [00:00:00]:
Have you been told you should take more initiative? Or perhaps you’ve been telling that to someone else. Either way, this episode with Tom Henschel will outline three key steps to help you get started. This is Coaching for Leaders episode 730. Production Credit: Produced by Innovate Learning, maximizing human potential. Greetings to you from Orange County, California. This is Coaching for Leaders, and I’m your host, Dave Stachowiak. Leaders aren’t born, they’re made.

Dave Stachowiak [00:00:37]:
And this weekly show helps you discover leadership wisdom through insightful conversations. One of the things that we all need to do in our role as leaders is to take initiative. We also need to help others to be able to take initiative well. And if you’re anything like me, you may have struggled a bit with both of those at different points in your career. And today, a conversation that’s gonna help us to do that a bit better. I am so pleased to welcome back to the show Tom Henschel. Tom of Essential Communications supports senior leaders and executive teams. He’s an internationally recognized expert in the field of workplace communications and self presentation and has helped thousands of leaders achieve excellence through his work as an executive coach and his top rated podcast, The Look and Sound of Leadership, my favorite show on leadership that I listen to all the time.

Dave Stachowiak [00:01:28]:
And Tom, in addition, is a dear friend. Tom, I went and looked, and I think if I counted correctly, this is your sixteenth appearance here on Coaching for Leaders. Welcome back.

Tom Henschel [00:01:38]:
Thanks. It’s so great. That’s terrific. I’m so glad to be back.

Dave Stachowiak [00:01:42]:
Oh, my gosh. Me too. And it has been a bit since you’ve been on, and you and I have been having this conversation. You say in your podcast, the ongoing conversation of leadership, and you and I have been having an ongoing conversation over the last couple of months about this topic of initiative. And it is one that I think a lot of us struggle with. I know I have at points in my career, for sure. You and I both see this a lot.

Dave Stachowiak [00:02:08]:
And you brought a question into our conversation that I’d love to have you reflect on a bit. And the question you post to me is is initiative in the eye of the beholder. Tell me about that question.

Tom Henschel [00:02:24]:
I think sometimes with the best of intention, someone might take initiative. Like, I might send an email to a group with the intention of being helpful, with the intention of sharing information. And suddenly, my boss comes to me and goes, what were you thinking? We were not ready to whatever. And I suddenly am going like, I thought I was doing something good. I thought I was taking initiative. I thought I was being helpful. But it didn’t land that way on my boss because initiative is in the eye of the beholder, as in your action shows up, the initiative you took shows up, but your intention does not.

Dave Stachowiak [00:03:08]:
Ah, boy, that reminds me of where I started in my career when you said that. The feedback I got regularly the first few years of my professional career was you’re not showing enough initiative. And it was really interesting to me at the time of getting that feedback because when I would get that feedback, I would respectfully listen, and I’d ask a few questions. And I’d walk out of those conversations, and I’d think, what are they talking about? I remember one manager in particular. I’m thinking, like, I’m taking initiative all the time. I’m doing stuff. I’m trying new things. I’m doing everything that’s being asked of me.

Dave Stachowiak [00:03:52]:
I’m trying to be creative. And I would legitimately walk out of conversations where I’d get that feedback and it showed up a and I got passed over for a couple of promotions early on. And I just thought, what are they talking about? I don’t even see it. I don’t get it. But in their minds, I wasn’t showing initiative at all, at least not in the things that matter to them. And when you said in the eye of the beholder, I thought, wow, that’s just that was so much my story.

Tom Henschel [00:04:23]:
So now looking back, how do you make sense of that? Do you think it was a cultural issue? Like, where was the miscalibration?

Dave Stachowiak [00:04:31]:
Oh, it was me. It was absolutely me.

Tom Henschel [00:04:34]:
Now looking back, you say, oh, Dave, you really could have been taken more initiative.

Dave Stachowiak [00:04:39]:
Oh, absolutely. Now when I look back, like, twenty five years later, I think to myself, oh my gosh. I didn’t take initiative at all. I missed so much opportunity. I didn’t step out of the box. I waited for people to tell me what to do by and large. Yes. I would do, like, little things of, like, reformatting spreadsheets and figuring out processes that help make things marginally better for the people I was working with and peers and employees.

Dave Stachowiak [00:05:06]:
But I didn’t ever do anything that I would put in the category of bold or or really meaningful for the organization that would really significantly move the needle. And the interesting thing, Tom, is I think about that is I see that so clearly now, but it didn’t even occur to me at the time that I was missing those things.

Tom Henschel [00:05:28]:
And if I had stopped you in the parking lot on the way home, you would have said, but I’m taking initiative. Yeah. So so, again, I’m wondering, is this about professional maturity? Like, you thought the reformatting of a spreadsheet was taking initiative, but your supervisors looked at it and went, that work does not make any difference.

Dave Stachowiak [00:05:50]:
Right.

Tom Henschel [00:05:51]:
Right. And so but you didn’t have the lens to look through it. And I wonder, as you and I are gonna talk about this, I wonder if we’re gonna be able to help people shift that lens for themselves to be able to see what they can’t see at the moment.

Dave Stachowiak [00:06:06]:
Yeah. And I think this is maybe a good lead in, Tom, to three steps that you’ve surfaced in thinking about this. And your first invitation is to think about your work and to talk about it. Tell me more about that.

Tom Henschel [00:06:21]:
Well, you know, I’m a coach, so I often think that my job is to get people to talk out loud so that they can discover their own thinking. And I find that to be true all the time that insightful questions helps them deepen their own thinking. It’s not that I have the insight. They’re gonna have the insight about their own situation, their own work, their own relationships. And I do think we all experience this, you know, being in relationship with our partners or our family or our friends that, you know, we’re suddenly over a meal talking about our work, and we say something and we go, that’s a good idea. I hadn’t thought of that before. And what kind of surfaced it for you is the mental process of having to articulate your ideas. So my feeling is if you would like to get better at taking initiative, the very first thing you need to do is to start thinking actively about your work.

Tom Henschel [00:07:17]:
Now maybe you’re an introvert, and maybe you think by reflection, and you don’t need to be talking to people. That’s okay. But to devote the time specifically to say, what’s going on at my work? You’re not saying how can I take more initiative? You’re thinking about your work because ideas will surface or talk to people about your work, and ideas will surface. That’s step one.

Dave Stachowiak [00:07:41]:
I am constantly amazed at my own inability to see outside of my own perspective without getting in conversation with others and how I can so easily miss stuff. And I also see it, Tom, in our academy cohorts when someone brings a situation to one of our cohorts and we’re talking through it and we have a whole process for how we do that. And it’s really fascinating how, what is immediately apparent to three or four other people in the conversation that the person who’s in the middle of the politics, the emotion, the situation can’t see. And I’ve seen it now on both sides so many times that I recognize that the importance of reflecting, getting other people involved, having other data points in in just in order to see things that otherwise you can’t see that are blind spots.

Tom Henschel [00:08:41]:
Yeah. Isn’t it amazing? It’s wonderful. Listen. Again, it’s part of why my work is so gratifying. It’s it’s not that I’m doing the magic. It’s that the magic happens.

Dave Stachowiak [00:08:50]:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The the thing that has an an indicator that I’ve noticed, both in myself and in the people I work with, at this step of, like, okay. In thinking about it, in talking about something in an ambiguous situation, if I could talk, of, like, should I do something or not? Is one indicator that tends to come up a lot is, do I feel like I’m waiting for someone else?

Tom Henschel [00:09:24]:
Yeah. Right?

Dave Stachowiak [00:09:25]:
And I’ve noticed that sometimes, legitimately, I or someone else needs to wait for someone else because it’s a policy decision, because there’s an approval, because there’s some sort of formal thing that needs to happen. I found more often, though, that that feeling of I’m waiting on someone else is that the someone else is not going to happen. You know? It’s sort of an indicator that like, okay, if I’m if I find myself in noticing myself waiting on other people a lot, that actually I’ve realized over time that, like, that may be an indicator coming back to me or whoever the person’s waiting that like, oh, maybe I should be the one taking the first step on this.

Tom Henschel [00:10:12]:
I also think it echoes back to that idea of, will it be well received? And that may be part of the fear too. It’s like, well, I could do that, but I’m not sure if I should do that. Right? Is it in the eye of the the beholder again? So it might be a little bit of that too. So I think there’s many reasons that might block us or inhibit us from taking more initiative. And, hopefully, this conversation is gonna help.

Dave Stachowiak [00:10:35]:
Yeah. Indeed. And and and I actually wanted to ask you about that because the first point you’ve made here is thinking, talking about what’s happening, talking about your work, getting out of your own perspective, taking some time to reflect, whatever that looks like. The second step is gonna be executing on your idea, which we’re gonna get to in a moment. But I am sorta curious if there’s, like, a a step 1.5 here in some situations of assuming I do that talking and thinking and maybe I’ve decided that I’m gonna try something, do I tell other people what I’m about to do before I do it, or do I not? And I can sorta make a case either way, and I’m curious how you think about it.

Tom Henschel [00:11:19]:
Listen. I I think communication is a crucial part of taking initiative so that you don’t step off a cliff. I mean, yes. I think that’s really important, and it might be step 1.5. Maybe. But this really simple three step model that I was thinking about was in order to literally just kick yourself off the diving board, and it’s why I put as number two is execute. Right? So I’m thinking about my my work. I’m talking to you.

Tom Henschel [00:11:45]:
I have this idea. Do it. That’s number two. Do it. And, again, with the understanding that you’re being thoughtful, with the understanding that you’ve asked the question, should I, you’ve asked the question, should I let people know first or whatever. Let’s assume that. But my point is, if you can think about all that and there’s no reason to hesitate, do it. Just do it.

Tom Henschel [00:12:08]:
And make agreements with yourself. How far will you go? Will you go one step and then turn to your boss and go, I wanna tell you something I’m doing? Or will you go four steps and then turn to your boss and say, I wanna tell you something that I’m doing? So you I think you need to be thinking about that. Like, how far am I going? How big a step am I taking? And that’s part of your job here in steps one and two, thinking about your work and executing on it. You need to know, really, what what are you going to do and be really clear about it so So that if someone does come up to you and say, what are you doing? You can explain it.

Dave Stachowiak [00:12:47]:
And you highlighted for me a a scale that goes from on one side being really cautious and on the other side being very bold. And I think in most situations, we don’t wanna be on the extreme of either of those sides, but kind of picturing where we are and maybe nudging a bit. Right?

Tom Henschel [00:13:14]:
Yeah. Yeah. If we think about those two ends of the continuum as they relate to initiative specifically, yes, I I think what I’ve learned from my clients, what I’ve learned in my own life is that there is always room to move towards bold even if it’s just 5%. Not a lot. But if you were to ask yourself, if I were 5% more bold in my work tomorrow, what would I do? And I believe that something will come to your mind because I think we all have a little room to grow on that side. Not because we’re fearful or timid or anything, but because we’re doing everything that we know or got enough work to keep us busy, we’re we’re not sitting thinking about initiative. We’re doing what we’re there to do. So I think this does often take a little focus.

Tom Henschel [00:14:07]:
And I love the thought exercise of if I were 5% more bold tomorrow, what would I do?

Dave Stachowiak [00:14:14]:
And it’s really interesting that when I think about all the situations, all the conversations I’ve been involved with in recent years and with our members and listeners, it’s it’s pretty rare I run into someone in a situation where they’re being too bold.

Tom Henschel [00:14:35]:
Okay then.

Dave Stachowiak [00:14:36]:
It it does happen.

Tom Henschel [00:14:38]:
But I think that’s really helpful. If that’s really your evidence and and your experience, it’s helpful for all of us who are cautious or who worry. It’s great. Most of the time, it’s fine. Do it.

Dave Stachowiak [00:14:52]:
Yeah. But I’m indexing on my own experience here and with our members who, by and large, are people who are really thoughtful, thinking deeply about leadership, and the kind of folks who listen to the show are just, like, I think a really, really special unique kind of person who really thinks deeply about this. And not every leader does. And you in particular sometimes work with folks who are pretty disruptive in their work. I’m curious, like, do you see people who run into the too bold? And if and when you do, what are the indicators that, okay, maybe they’ve over indexed on that a bit?

Tom Henschel [00:15:30]:
Oh, for sure. Yes. Those people are absolutely out there. And I’m so glad that you kind of remind us that, yes, this isn’t for everybody. Some people are too far indexed down the bold line. Yes. What happens is people tend to get angry at those people because they’re breaking boundaries. They’re breaking agreements.

Tom Henschel [00:15:52]:
They’re rushing ahead. It often looks very self serving. It also looks tone deaf. Like, are you not paying attention? So, yes, you’re absolutely right. In order to do this well, this in this initiative, I think you and I are assuming that we are talking to people who are, like, in your academy, who are thoughtful about their work and reflective about their own behaviors. Yes. I agree.

Dave Stachowiak [00:16:15]:
And the reason I mentioned that is because I think, like, oftentimes, when we get into a conversation about this, when I get a conversation about this with anyone and even myself, I despite all evidence to the contrary, I think sometimes, oh, am I that bold jerk person that’s, like, doing too much, going too far? And almost always, I’m indexing the other way, actually too much, and the people I’m working with are indexing the other way. But I think it’s like, it’s interesting. A lot of us fear being that person who’s doing too much, who’s being too bold, who’s being too aggressive and making people angry. And as a result, it stops us from actually doing the things that would be taking healthy initiative in our organizations.

Tom Henschel [00:17:00]:
Yes. It stops people. But, you know, I have this conversation with people. As a coach, I have this conversation with people all the time, Dave, who say kinda what you say of, like, well, I don’t wanna overstep my bounds, and I don’t wanna step on people’s toes. And I usually ask, as I would ask of you, is is that actually your pattern? Because what you’ve actually told me is that going back to early in your career, you’re actually calibrated to be more towards the midline than bold down the line. That’s not actually your inclination. And And I think most people can picture where they are on that continuum.

Tom Henschel [00:17:36]:
And if they really feel like they’re pretty far down the bold line, well, they might wanna get some feedback and check that out. But I think most of us are closer to the midline and could move a little further down.

Dave Stachowiak [00:17:47]:
Oh, I love that question. Is that your pattern? That’s such a helpful way to think about this. And that’s a good lead into speaking of communication, the third step here, which is, of course, we talked about the thinking, the talking about the work. We talked about executing on the idea, trying something. Step three, communication. What does that look like?

Tom Henschel [00:18:09]:
Well, I think it looks like advocating for what you’re doing. It’s becoming an advocate for the idea that you had. It’s not about you personally. It’s that you’re somehow improving something, changing something, making something better, and you’re gonna go tell that story. So maybe you need to put some data together, then make a slide, maybe I don’t know what. Maybe you’re gonna have a story to tell or an anecdote. I don’t know. But you want to show people the beginning of this work to get them on board, to get them to be advocates, to get momentum behind it.

Tom Henschel [00:18:46]:
Again, not as self advocacy. You’re trying to be of service to the work.

Dave Stachowiak [00:18:52]:
And the key distinction I’m hearing there is you advocating for the idea versus advocating for yourself. Right? That’s so key.

Tom Henschel [00:18:59]:
Well, I think that’s part of the whole thing about initiative. Those people that you talked about who are over indexed way down on the bold line, I think we see them as self serving. Because I think it’s easy for initiative to look self serving sometimes. Like, you’re just doing that as self promotion, pal. Like, what are you doing? But I think when we come at any initiative with the idea of service, it completely changes it, and it changes your ideas too. If I’m thinking about how the work could be better, I’m probably gonna have one idea. If I think about how can I get a promotion, I might have a very different idea, and I wanna say how I can get a promotion is a really important way to be thinking about your work? I’m just saying that doesn’t necessarily mean taking initiative. So so I I think often our initiate well, no.

Tom Henschel [00:19:47]:
Let me say this a different way. What we don’t want is we don’t want our initiative to look self serving. We want it to look like we’re being helpful to the business. And I think coming at even your thinking about your work, right, all three of these steps, I think you can ask yourself, who’s benefiting here? If I’m gonna do this, who wins? And if it’s not only you, by the way, it’s great if it is you, by the way. I’m all for that. But it shouldn’t only be you. If the team is gonna be better, the customer is gonna be better, the outcome’s gonna be better, go for it, and then communicate about it. One, two, three.

Dave Stachowiak [00:20:24]:
One of my favorite quotes of all time is from the late Zig Ziglar who said, “you can have everything in life you want if you’ll just help enough other people get what they want.” And I think about that in the context of what you just said, Tom, because you one of the mindsets that you invited me to think about even before this conversation is calibrate yourself to helping people. Like if you calibrate that first, then you’re so much more likely to stick with the ideas, the big picture, the how am I helping the organization and less about the what does this necessarily mean for me and a selfishness and all that.

Tom Henschel [00:21:00]:
I’ll add something. If you are known as a helper, a contributor, then you will get invited places. You will get invited onto projects. You will get invited to meet people. You will have opportunities to take initiative because helpers are brought along. So, yeah, if you can calibrate yourself to helping people, oh, yeah. I think it’s a great way to think about that as an initiative that you do, and and opportunities to take initiative will show up.

Dave Stachowiak [00:21:32]:
One of the obstacles I know you hear from people in conversations when talking about this is that I don’t know enough yet. And like, I’m not sure what to do, and I don’t have all the information or the experience. When you hear that from people, what do you invite them to do?

Tom Henschel [00:21:50]:
Well, I do a little ass kicking, Dave. Because, I mean, partly, if they go, I don’t know enough yet, my answer back is like, well, what do you need to know, and why don’t you know it? It is it available, or are you just worried? Because if the information’s available, then go. That’s part of the initiative. Go find out what you need to know. So that’s the first part. There’s another thing too, though, which, again, this with people who aren’t as bold as they could be, I really encourage them. Could they just make an assumption and move forward on that assumption? And then that’s the execution part. And then you’re gonna communicate about the assumption and find out.

Tom Henschel [00:22:35]:
Can you do that? And I know that for some people, that feels like a risk. I I wanna just go back to the beginning to make sure that this is really clear. What you and I are talking about is a mind block that people have of, well, you know, I really would like to do that, but I’m not sure. I I just don’t know enough yet. When you hear that in your own head, I wanna say either go find out the answer or make an assumption, a reasonable assumption that suits the business and suits what you’re doing, try it out, and then communicate about it. I but so let me just ask it back to you. I’m proposing two different things. What do you how do these sound?

Dave Stachowiak [00:23:10]:
Oh, it sounds so sensible and logical and kinda going back to where we started, how often we just don’t see it, and we don’t see where to begin. And so I think, like, part of this is just the noticing, the thinking about it, the okay. If I feel like I’m waiting on people or I feel like things aren’t clear or I’m sensing ambiguity, that that’s like the that’s an indicator likely. Okay. It’s time to do something with that of, oh, I need to go find some more information or I need to have questions. And I think to your point earlier is this is an opportunity to also engage in conversation with people and find out, like, do other people have this information? Do other people know? Like, am I like, how often we’re just not I think we’re we often have fear of just asking, like, the kind of the basic sometimes obvious question, but sometimes that’s a question that needs to be asked. I don’t know what to

Tom Henschel [00:24:11]:
Be in conversation with people. Listen. I think in some ways, that’s taking initiative. Can I tell a quick story? I I was having breakfast with a a friend the other day, and his kid is new at one of the big state universities in the Midwest. And, he’s into sports management. And there was this opportunity. He’s a freshman, remember. He there’s an this opportunity, and he had to write an essay and all this stuff.

Tom Henschel [00:24:35]:
And so he calls his dad, and he goes, you know, god, will you help me with my essay? And his dad goes, why don’t you just go talk to the coach? And he was like, well, I’m supposed to write an essay. And he was like, well, why don’t you go ask the coach what makes a good essay? And he was like, can I do that? And the dad goes, yeah. Just go talk to him. The kid goes down the hall, sits down, talks to the coach. The coach says, you want this job? It’s yours if you want it. Because he took initiative. He walked down the hall and went to talk to the coach. And that idea, right, he was like, I don’t know enough yet.

Tom Henschel [00:25:11]:
No. Just go do it. And it also speaks to the thing that I think you were talking about earlier, which is you were hearing go take more initiative and you couldn’t see how.

Dave Stachowiak [00:25:20]:
Right.

Tom Henschel [00:25:21]:
Right? So this idea, one of the things that you and I are talking about at the moment is this idea. When I hear I don’t know enough that I’m gonna make an assumption, what’s important is to know you’ve made an assumption because that helps you communicate later to say, look. I didn’t know this, so I made this assumption it’s gonna be this way, and then I took that action. And then people go, oh, I see that. By the way, bad assumption. Wish you hadn’t done it. But at least, you know, it wasn’t just you being impulsive. So that idea of having some self awareness, self knowledge, I am making an assumption.

Tom Henschel [00:25:51]:
I’m gonna act on this assumption, and we’ll see where it goes. I think that’s another way to take initiative and give yourself permission to do it.

Dave Stachowiak [00:25:58]:
There’s two things you mentioned to me leading up to this conversation that I wanted to loop back on, and I don’t know if we’ve talked about either of them yet. But if we haven’t, you said you had a trick on thinking about this, and I’m wondering if you’d share that.

Tom Henschel [00:26:13]:
Yes. I do. This became a trick because it was something that happened to me, and I suddenly realized, oh, this is happening. Many, many, many, many years ago, I made a commitment to myself that I would no longer ask questions in emails. And the reason why was because I felt that anytime I asked a question, I was giving the receiver work, and that’s not my place to give the receiver work. That’s not my intention with the email. So I started to say to myself, no questions. If you have a question, see if you can turn it into a statement.

Tom Henschel [00:26:51]:
And what ended up happening over time was I had to make decisions. And so I wanna say if you wanna take more initiative, try asking no questions in an email. Make statements because you will have to make choices. You will have to be clear about your position to make a statement, and it forces you to take initiative. It’s been a really interesting experience for me.

Dave Stachowiak [00:27:15]:
Fascinating. I’m gonna try that. I’m gonna try that this week. I love it.

Tom Henschel [00:27:19]:
Oh, I’m gonna be curious. If it’s easy, hard, if you think it’s worth it, yeah, I’d love to hear about it.

Dave Stachowiak [00:27:24]:
Oh, I’m sure it’ll be hard. And I also think it’ll be really useful to try it because yeah. The other thing that you mentioned leading up to this conversation, and maybe you already shared the story, I don’t know, but you said you had a growing up story about taking initiative and the challenge it brought. Would you tell it?

Tom Henschel [00:27:40]:
So this this goes back to me as a kid growing up. I was the youngest of four kids, two parents, household of six. You know, running a house of six is can be chaos. And one of the things looking back now, especially, one one of the things I think my parents did really well was to create moments where the family worked together for the next part of the day or the next event or whatever it was. So we’d be playing games, and then everybody pitches in to clean up or everybody sets the table or clears the dish or whatever, and it’s it’s a group thing. So as an extrovert and a little kid who I just loved because I was the youngest, I was I loved being included. It was a good match for me. But one of the things I learned as I continued to grow up and get older and, you know, life in the house, not everybody’s in the same room at the same time, but sometimes you show up.

Tom Henschel [00:28:29]:
And one of the things my parents taught me was if you see everybody working, pitch in. Don’t take that as an opportunity to go to the bathroom. Like, pitch in. And if you don’t know what to do, ask, but there’s always something to do. So look around and figure it out. And that was really helpful for me as a team participant, as someone who tended to work in large teams, especially when I was in the theater, to that there was always something to do and having that as an idea. So that made me take initiative, and that part of it was really helpful. What I found, Dave, and here was where the challenge came, when I moved into a leadership role, like, for example, the first time I directed a play, I was used to being part of the team and taking initiative as a team member where it’s pretty clear how to help.

Tom Henschel [00:29:17]:
If you look around and you know the work, it’s pretty clear how you can pitch in. But when you’re the leader, you’re suddenly making the work. And I was like the I the very first time I worked with designers, I’m gonna interrupt myself. I knew how to take care of my actors. I had been an actor, so I could lead my actors and took plenty of initiative with them. I knew what they needed. But my first two designers were all over me. They were like, they were basically saying you don’t know how to direct a play, pal, because I didn’t know how to take initiative for them and make the decisions they needed so they could do their work.

Tom Henschel [00:29:52]:
I didn’t know how to do that. And my growing up, as pleasant as it was and as useful as it was, didn’t help me there, and I found that I was shy and a little slow to learn. So it was an interesting way. When I was part of a team, I could take initiative. When I was a sole leader, it was harder for me.

Dave Stachowiak [00:30:12]:
What helped you shift, like, that first experience of directing a play and then the second, the third that made it a bit better?

Tom Henschel [00:30:22]:
Opening night. Opening night is coming. No. But I’m serious. Like, you don’t have a choice. I mean, you could put on a play that’s crappy but if you have a choice why would you do that? So I I mean I learned as fast as I could because opening night is coming and I wanted the play to be good. That was really my motivator was yeah, there’s no time. Get to work.

Tom Henschel [00:30:47]:
So, you know, yeah, that was a good motivator.

Dave Stachowiak [00:30:50]:
Tom Henschel is the host of The Look and Sound of Leadership, my favorite podcast on leadership. He’s an executive coach, and he’s a dear friend. Tom, it is always a pleasure.

Tom Henschel [00:31:01]:
My words exactly. Always a pleasure.

Dave Stachowiak [00:31:09]:
Many of you have told me over the years that it’s so helpful here at the end of episodes to hear related conversations, other episodes that I think will be helpful to you. And I know many of you go down those rabbit holes and, have been really helpful of illuminating more resources on a particular topic. And I stole that idea from Tom Henschel. I absolutely did because I thought it was so great. He’s been doing that for years on the Look and Sound of Leadership podcast. I started doing the same thing. So many of you have told me that’s great. In the spirit of giving back, I’d love to share a few episodes from Tom’s podcast, the look and sound of leadership that I think you should listen to.

Dave Stachowiak [00:31:45]:
Some of my favorites in recent years. One of them is episode one sixty six on the look and sound of leadership, leadership versus management. Tom does a beautiful job in this episode of painting the distinction between leadership and management. They are different. They’re related. And I get this question a lot from our members. What is the difference? How do you think about it? How do you define them? Tom details that beautifully in episode 166 of his show and, really paints the picture of management being about answering complexity. Leadership is the answer to change, and he goes into much more detail there.

Dave Stachowiak [00:32:20]:
It’s a wonderful concise way to think about it. It lines up exactly with how I think about it as well. Also recommended his episode 239, five strategies for dealing with narcissists. It’s just the reality that many of us will, at some point, work for someone who displays narcissistic tendencies. They do tend to show up in greater numbers in executive leadership, unfortunately, in a lot of organizations. And so how do you deal with that? I hope you’re not working for a narcissist right now. It’s a difficult thing when you are. But if you are, five strategies from his episode 239, I think will really help you to start to take some practical steps to navigate a tough situation like that.

Dave Stachowiak [00:32:58]:
Also recommended his episode 250. How to answer, tell us about yourself. That’s the question a lot of us have gotten before. Oftentimes, it comes up in interview situations. It’s also the conversation that inspired this conversation. When I heard that episode, I thought, oh, that’s an ambiguous question. And it got us thinking about how we actually handle situations where there isn’t always a clear answer or one way to do things. And Tom really goes into detail in that episode of how to paint that picture really beautifully when you do get that question, how to make it work for you.

Dave Stachowiak [00:33:33]:
And then finally, I’d recommend his episode 254, how to talk so people understand you. Tom has been teaching for years a framework called sorting and labeling. Bonnie and I use it all the time in our communications to help people understand our message. He’s been a wonderful coach to us on this. And so many of you have told me how valuable Tom’s methodology on sorting and labeling is. If you need people to understand you better or if you regularly find that people aren’t getting the message, episode 254 of the look and sound of leadership would be a great place to start. And I’d, of course, recommend listening to Tom’s show. It’s airs once a month for about twenty, twenty five minutes.

Dave Stachowiak [00:34:11]:
It’s a great compliment to coaching for leaders. Thanks, Tom, for all your resources and your mentorship and friendship over the years. In addition to that, I’d recommend going over to coachingforleaders.com. And if you set up your free membership, you’re gonna get access to a whole bunch of resources. One of them is the ability to search in the library by topics. You can find exactly what is relevant to you right now. One of those topic areas is Tom, because Tom’s been on the show so many times over the years. We’ve databased all the episodes he’s been on.

Dave Stachowiak [00:34:42]:
So if you’re looking for more episodes we’ve had with him over the years inside of the free membership, just look for Tom Henschel’s name in there. You’ll find that along with dozens of other categories of resources that’ll be useful to you right now. And if you’d like a bit more, you might want to check out Coaching for Leaders Plus. Every single week, I am writing a journal entry, and I’m sharing it with you on email so that you can take the next step on something that’s important right now in how you lead. And just this past week or two, one of our members mentioned a difficult conversation they’re having with a stakeholder and a stakeholder who’s not very trusting right now. And we talked about how we can do a better job at actually building relationships with stakeholders, especially when there isn’t trust. I penned a recent journal entry on how to make your stakeholders shine. Some of the key principles I’ve used over the years, I’ve seen work for others, and where to begin.

Dave Stachowiak [00:35:38]:
It’s one of the recent journal entries. You can find it inside Coaching for Leaders Plus. We’d like to discover more about that. Just go to coachingforleaders.plus for information on the journal, our expert chats, topic guides, and much more. Coaching for leaders is edited by Andrew Kroeger. Production support is provided by Sierra Priest. Thanks as always for the privilege to support you, and I’ll be back next Monday for our next conversation on leadership.