683: Create Something Better Than Its Parts, with David Novak

Dave Stachowiak [00:00:00]:
Effective leadership means bringing different people and ideas together to create something entirely new. In this episode, how to create something bigger and better than just its parts. This is Coaching for Leaders episode 683. Produced by Innovate Learning, maximizing human potential. Greetings to you from Orange County, California. This is Coaching for Leaders, and I’m your host, Dave Stachowiak. Leaders aren’t born, they’re made.

Dave Stachowiak [00:00:38]:
And this weekly show helps you discover leadership wisdom through insightful conversations. One of the charges of leadership that almost all of us have is creating something bigger than its parts. Of being able to get up to altitude, to look at the bigger picture, and to put things together that help out people and organizations in our world in wonderful ways. Today, I’m so glad to welcome back a guest who has had such a wonderful track record of doing this in so many different venues. And perhaps as importantly, has learned from so many other leaders to help us to get better at creating something bigger than the pieces. I’m so pleased to welcome back David Novak. He is cofounder and the retired chairman and CEO of Yum Brands, the world’s largest restaurant company. During his tenure as CEO, Yum Brands became a global powerhouse growing from 4,000,000,000 in market cap to over 32,000,000,000.

Dave Stachowiak [00:01:34]:
After retiring in 2016, he became the founder and CEO of David Novak Leadership, dedicated to developing leaders at every life stage. He is the author of How Leaders Learn: Master the Habits of the World’s Most Successful People. David, welcome back to the show.

David Novak [00:01:53]:
It’s my pleasure, Dave. I’m happy to be back with you. I love the fact that you started this out by talking about the power of pattern thinking. You know, 1 +1 equaling3. That’s terrific.

Dave Stachowiak [00:02:02]:
Yeah. Well and as I was thinking about this and reading your book, I couldn’t help but think of my favorite snack. So anytime our family goes out for sandwiches, the question is not so much which snack we’re going to get with it. The question is, is it going to be nacho cheese Doritos, or is it gonna be cool ranch Doritos? And so that’s why there’s a story in the book about cool ranch Doritos that I couldn’t possibly ignore. And I think it’s a great example of what we’re talking about of creating something bigger than its parts. I’m wondering if you could take us back to all those years ago when the team was thinking about, like, what do we do beyond just nacho cheese Doritos. Right?

David Novak [00:02:45]:
Yeah. Well, I was the management supervisor of the Doritos account at an agency advertising agency called Tracy Locke. And our biggest account was Doritos. And nacho cheese Doritos was the biggest Dave, and it it had grown enormously. But it it was starting to slow down. So I said to my team, I said, you know, we need to recommend a new flavor that will spur some growth on Doritos. And I said, let’s let’s figure out the possibilities that might be out there. So I said, let’s go to the grocery store, and let’s walk up and down every aisle in the grocery store and see what seems to be taking off and see if there’s any ideas there.

David Novak [00:03:24]:
Now I think in most situations, people would go straight to the snack aisle to see what was happening in your specific category.

Dave Stachowiak [00:03:35]:
Right.

David Novak [00:03:36]:
Well, we look at every other every other aisle, though. And and we we came to the salad dressing aisle, and it was obvious that the most popular new flavor that was really taking off at the time was ranch dressing. And you could see the number of facings it had in the stores. You could see the fact that the point of purchase was up for it. You could see that people were really marketing it. And I said to my team, what if we put a ranch flavor on a Doritos? And we kinda thought that was a really good idea, Dave. I came back, and I called Dennis Heard, who’s the head of r and d for Frito Lay. And I said, we’ve got this idea to put ranch flavored type dressing kind of flavor on a a Doritos.

David Novak [00:04:21]:
You think you could do that? And he says, absolutely. That could be a really good idea. And I have to tell you, Dave, when those came off the line in the test lab, I mean, they were so delicious. It was amazing. We knew we had a absolute home run. And then we said, okay. We need to name it. And there we went to school on what was working in our category.

David Novak [00:04:43]:
Now we could Dave called, nacho cheese Doritos cheese Doritos, but that doesn’t have any cache to it. And we really looked at a lot of other brands, including Doritos, is that the best brands always put a unique image to a known quantity. You know, they give you enough to of the familiarity, but they try to give you a unique image that makes it stand out, makes it a little bit different. And that’s what nacho was to nacho cheese. It was that unique image. And and so we worked on a number of different ideas and we came up with the idea to to call our ranch flavored Doritos Cool Ranch Doritos. And now it’s your favorite in your family, and and it’s I think I don’t know that it sells as much as nacho cheese Doritos, but it’s close, and it’s clearly one of the most profitable biggest, snacks in the grocery store.

Dave Stachowiak [00:05:32]:
You write in the book, the Cool Ranch process we went through reveals the power of pattern thinking. Pattern thinking is 1 +1 equals 3 kind of learning. You create something bigger than its parts by pairing things that aren’t obviously related, but that together create something new, exciting, and powerful. Tell me more about this concept of pattern thinking and how you think about it.

David Novak [00:05:58]:
Well, I think that the first thing is is that you’ve gotta just be a curious person. You gotta really take a look at what’s going on in the world, what’s going on in the world of products, what you see happening at all times. And and then you just ask yourself, hey. If this is working over in this specific category or if this is working for this person, how could I make it work for me? And that’s how you get that one plus one equals 3. You you you see what other people, other brands are doing, and then you say, okay. I’m gonna I’m gonna give it a go too. When I went to, Pizza Hut, for example, one of the fastest growing new concepts at that point in time, and I when I was running marketing there, was California Pizza Kitchen.

David Novak [00:06:53]:
So I took my team out to California to go see California Pizza Kitchen and really see what they were doing. And if you’ve ever been to California Pizza Kitchen, they have all these individual pizzas with many incredibly different toppings like Thai chicken pizza, BLT chicken, BLT pizzas. They have just a number of different types of pizzas and many much more exotic toppings than what we had at Pizza Hut. But I said to the team, I said, well, how could we take what they’re doing and make it work at Pizza Hut? And you know what we decided to do is we decided that we would double the number of onis, which we had a lot of those on our make table, and create a product called pepperoni lovers. And it was the most successful new product introduced at at pizza since pan pizza at the time. Then we said, okay. That’s working. Let’s do the same thing with meat.

David Novak [00:07:51]:
Let’s do the same same thing with veggies. So we created meat lovers and veggie lovers and cheese lovers, and and it’s the lovers line of pizza, which is still the most popular line of pizzas at Pizza Hut, today. But it came from looking at what someone else was doing with a much different concept than what we had and say, how could we apply what they do for our business? You know, another example I can give you is, McDonald’s is known for their their kids’ marketing. But most most people would stayed away from it because they were so dominant in that that era era. I was thinking, well, how do how can we do it in a unique kind of way? And we looked at the airlines business. I read in advertising age about how they had variable pricing. So if you flew on off peak days, you could get a big discount. K? So we created on Tuesday night, which is a off peak day at Pizza Hut, we call that kids night.

David Novak [00:08:53]:
And if you brought your kid in, they would get a free personal pan pizza, which really worked because the kid got the free personal pan pizza, but everybody else had to order pizza. And we made a lot of money doing it even though we’re giving something away. And then, you know, but we had a lot of fun with the kids, and we really started built a kids franchise at Pizza Hut, which we did not have until we started thinking that way. And then we started looking at what McDonald’s was doing and saying, hey. Nobody else in the category is doing it besides McDonald’s. Why don’t we do it? So we we did promotions with the NCAA. We did promotions with, like, movies like Land Before Time. But it was basic pattern thinking that really uncovered really, really big ideas for us.

Dave Stachowiak [00:09:36]:
It’s so interesting. We think of all those examples of the intersections. Right? Like, I think about you and your team going to CPK, looking at that. And then having something come out of it that wasn’t CPK, and it wasn’t what Pizza Hut had been doing. It was something entirely new. And you write that active learners read, listen, travel, try new things, explore hobbies and interests. Part of the reason that pattern thinking works of creating something bigger than its parts is you are a lot more curious in looking outside of just your own sphere of influence and knowledge. That’s key in making this work, isn’t it?

David Novak [00:10:16]:
Yes. Absolutely. And that curiosity that you just talked about and, you know, actively looking for new experiences, It becomes active learning when you ask yourself, how can I apply what’s happening here in my piece of the world or whatever I happen to be working on? And when you do that, you know, you you take what is seemingly a concept and then you’d really turn it into action and something that could really grow yourself or grow your business.

Dave Stachowiak [00:10:52]:
You make the point “active learners don’t wait for the moment to hit them. They work to find it. They’re seeking out patterns actively.” And there’s a whole bunch of examples you point to of leaders in the book. One of them is Roger Goodell, the NFL commissioner, and his practice of looking to other industries. And I thought that was fascinating. Could you share what he’s done as far as, like, utilizing Silicon Valley to inspire his work?

David Novak [00:11:15]:
Yeah. Yeah. Roger Goodell is a is a phenomenal, leader. And and you look at what, the NFL has done, it’s amazing. I think they have 93 of the top 100 rated television programs just because everybody’s watching the NFL. But I think the reason is is that he’s a real active learner, and and a great example of that is he and his team go to Silicon Valley every every year to see what’s going on in the tech world. And he went out there and and and that really inspired him to to really put WiFi access into stadiums. Now that seems like an old idea right now, but he did he broke new ground when when he did it before any other sport.

David Novak [00:11:57]:
And it’s because he was out there. He had his antenna up and then he said, okay. If they’re doing this here, how do we do it over here? And, you know, I I I I’ve talked to to Roger about just the power of what’s happening with the NFL. That brand is just an incredible brand. And the reason it is is that he’s constantly looking out and seeing how other people do things and then trying to create excitement and relevancy to the NFL. And every brand, for example, is trying to get reach throughout the week. So now you have Sunday Night Football, Monday night football, Thursday night football. He’s extending the reach of the brand.

David Novak [00:12:41]:
People major consumer companies have have big promotions. Well, if you wanna think of a big promotion, why don’t you think of the NFL draft? I mean, that they promote that like you can’t believe and it’s one of the most watched television shows around. And it’s all because of his mindset to say, okay. If other people are doing these kinds of things, how do we do it at the NFL? And the NFL is a incredible power brand.

Dave Stachowiak [00:13:06]:
When you see people like him who just do this so well, My sense is there’s a next step that they take that a lot of people don’t. Like, a lot of people read books. They may listen to things. They have hobbies, other interests, but they don’t necessarily take that active step, which is I hear the invitation you’re making of, like, there’s a step beyond that to, like, really actively be doing that in order to put the pieces together. What does that next step look like?

David Novak [00:13:40]:
Well, you know, when I first started out writing the book, How Leaders Learn, the idea was to really talk about this trait that I felt every leader had, and that was the fact that they’re an avid learner. But to your point, Dave, you could read a book and learn everything that’s in the book. But if you don’t do something with it, you’re just becoming book smart. You’re not really putting to the use. You’re not using it to grow yourself or your business or whatever. Active learning is is pairing that insight and that learning you have with action. And it’s that action that will really make a difference for you. For example, Tom Brady is one of the the best active learners I’ve ever talked to and and and, frankly, one of the best leaders I’ve ever talked to, if not the best, And I think it’s because he’s such an active learner.

David Novak [00:14:34]:
He goes to Tom House who’s the number one throwing coach in football and baseball. Now he could go visit Tom House, learn things about throwing and footwork, and then come back and do the exact same thing that he was doing before and not get any better. But that’s not Tom Brady. He goes sees Tom House, takes notes, comes back, figures out that footwork will help his throwing and his accuracy. And I think Bill Belichick will say that that’s one of the reasons why Tom was able to extend his career. And then if you look at a Tom House, Tom House discovered as the throwing coach that when he gave a football to to baseball pitchers, the really great baseball pitchers with great mechanics could throw the football with a perfect spiral. And so he said, oh, wow. I that there’s some real pattern thinking that can go on here if I can understand the mechanics of that pitcher and how they’re able to throw that spiral.

David Novak [00:15:39]:
And then he took that same learning and he took it over to the world of football and adapted it and figured out how to provide even better coaching to great players like Brady, Drew Brees, all kinds of, you know, every quarterback that you can think of goes to Tom Howse now. But again, it’s looking at things that are seemingly unrelated and then bringing them back to what you’re doing and then saying, okay, how can I use this to get a learning or an insight that’ll help me do a better job? But when you think about it, Dave, how many times have you seen people go off to a seminar and they’re really excited, they spend 3 days there and then they come back and they do the exact same thing they were doing before they went to the seminar. They forget the learning. You gotta turn the corner and and turn that learning into action. It’s one of the reasons why when I taught my leadership program called Taking People With You, I asked people to come in with the single biggest thing that they’re working on that could grow the business. But the thing that really made it powerful is, you know, I taught people how to take people with them, and then they had to apply that learning to the project that they thought that could grow our business the most. And then I had 30 days, 90 days, and 6 month tracking mechanisms to make sure people put it into action. And I think that’s how you get things done.

David Novak [00:17:03]:
You just can’t learn for learning’s sake. I guess that’s nice, but it’s not gonna separate you from the pack and help you be the best leader you can be.

Dave Stachowiak [00:17:13]:
Yeah. It it it sure feels good in the moment when you go to, like, that one day, 2 day seminar, and you get all these new ideas, and you come out feeling like you’ve learned a lot. And yet to your point, you don’t tend to take a lot of action on it. And I’ve done the same thing in our work of moving away from more of the event based thing and actually working with people over time on leadership development because I’ve I’ve seen the same patterns of really it’s yes. That’s a great starting point, the knowledge, of course. And then it’s the action, the activity behind it. And if we see an example in the book of all the people you’ve interviewed that have done such an amazing job at this. And one of the other examples you have is Peter Hurrell.

Dave Stachowiak [00:17:53]:
Peter is an example of pattern thinking as well. What did you discover from him that he did so well?

David Novak [00:17:59]:
Yeah. Well, when I was becoming the CEO of Yum Brands, I was very passionate about recognition. And I had a lot of fun with recognition. I gave away cheeseheads when I was president of Pizza Hut, floppy chickens when I was running KFC, and I wanted to do something similar at Yum Brands as a big part of our culture. And, you know, a lot of people told me this wouldn’t work in China, because they take their leaders very seriously. This wouldn’t work in the UK or England because they’re very sophisticated there, and they they don’t they would think this is kind of crazy. It, just you know, that’s not what they like to do there. And everybody kept bringing me all these reasons why having fun doing recognition wouldn’t work necessarily all around the world because every country is different, etcetera, etcetera.

David Novak [00:18:52]:
And then Peter Hurrell leaned on his experience. He probably had more international experience in our company than anybody that I talked to. And he said, David, all that is a bunch of baloney. People love to have fun. People love to get recognized all around the world. And if you do what you’ve been doing at Pizza Hut and KFC and you take that and you cascade that all around the world, it will grow like wildfire. That’s exactly what happened. Our company was even featured in Fortune Magazine by a great article by Jeff Colvin for for how we were able to use recognition to drive extraordinary results.

David Novak [00:19:33]:
But Peter Hurl gave me the conviction and the courage to follow what my instincts were, and I think we all need that as leaders. We need people to come up based on their experiences and what they’ve seen, you know, help you get to the right solution. And because of that, I took recognition, which is a concept that I loved and we took more action, and we did it all around the world. And it’s still a bedrock of what makes the the the Yum Brands culture really, really special.

Dave Stachowiak [00:20:06]:
And an example of what we’ve been talking about in that, it’s 2 pieces together, separate, but coming together to form something that’s bigger, better than before. And one of the other leaders that you mentioned in the book is Temple Grandin, the renowned professor at Colorado State who’s done incredible work in agriculture and animal welfare work and lot taking care of livestock and has utilized her own journey and her advocacy for those with autism to inspire her work and is created, like, all this incredible machinery best practices for folks working with livestock and making sure that animals are cared for well, inspired by autism. And I just think it’s oftentimes we think about these really different kinds of things, and we think about them as very disconnected. And yet, when we have the courage to be able to put things together, whether it’s autism and animal welfare, or whether it’s going to the snack aisle versus going to the dressing aisle. Right? Or it’s what one culture does versus what a different culture does of all the examples of creating something that’s bigger and better in ways that you would never have arrived to if you just looked at one of those in isolation.

David Novak [00:21:31]:
And sometimes it happens unknowingly. They’ve you know, it’s like people have studied the great musicians and people who’ve really composed these these masterpieces in the, world music world and and they it flows back that they have geometric patterns like in mathematics and but the the composer didn’t even know that it was happening. You know, a lot of times you get all this stuff learning that’s that’s packed inside of you that you apply pattern thinking without you even knowing it. And I think that’s fascinating as well.

Dave Stachowiak [00:22:06]:
And in the spirit of that, you have some wonderful questions that you invite us to think about, respond to as we’re looking for the patterns in our own lives and our own work. One of them is inviting us to ask how much time do you spend exploring outside your usual work and life experiences? What are you getting exposure to in different disciplines or industries? I think about that and how unusual it is for many leaders to spend any amount of time of interacting with people who come from really different industries or disciplines. But those who do, boy, it sure makes a difference, doesn’t it?

David Novak [00:22:44]:
Yeah. And and I think the exciting thing there, Dave, and you see this from all your podcasts and I’ve done that with how leaders lead, is that I’m constantly learning from every interview. And, you know, I pick up things that that I try to use in my life, And many of those insights, I I really tried to capture in my How Leaders Learn book so that they just wouldn’t be insights that I have or these great leaders that I talked to have. They can become insights that you can have and you can apply in your life. And I I think that’s that’s really exciting. And, you know, every week I do a podcast, I learn something from somebody. You know, I did a podcast and I haven’t posted it yet, but I did a podcast with Eric Church last week, the great singer, and he’s a great songwriter. And just the way how he talked about how important it is to have vision and the courage to stick to your vision was a phenomenal insight.

David Novak [00:23:46]:
And the way I articulated it was even better. And I think when you can pick up those kinds of things by by having your antenna up and really listening hard for those type of insights that might just show up in your life and then you apply them, man, you’re you’re so far ahead of everybody else. You know, the problem with too many people is they’re so insular that they don’t get outside and really see what’s going on.

Dave Stachowiak [00:24:15]:
Yeah. It’s so true. And I was thinking about what you were saying of, like, you and I both having podcasts interviewing people, and we’ve sort of figured out and I know for me, it’s Dave thing. I get more professional development more so than I ever have in my entire life from just the cadence of interviewing people and reading books and having conversations like we’re having. And I think the invitation I always have for people is, like, find your thing. For most people, it’s not gonna be hosting a podcast, but it is. There’s something that you can do. It is being involved in a community organization where you run into a lot of people from a lot of different kinds of backgrounds and faiths and disciplines and industries, or maybe it’s getting involved and volunteering in something, or maybe it’s starting something new, or maybe it’s taking on a hobby.

Dave Stachowiak [00:25:02]:
But there’s so many ways to do this, boy, and and once you start doing that consistently and you get those perspectives, you never see the world the same way.

David Novak [00:25:11]:
Yeah. And I think that’s why it’s so good to go on a board, serve the community, get different exposure to different kinds of things because then you can then apply them back to to to your day job, or you can learn something from another leader that maybe will make you a better leader. And I think that’s great.

Dave Stachowiak [00:25:32]:
You write, think of a challenge you are facing or a problem you’ve been struggling to solve. Have you looked for patterns or ideas from unusual sources yet? If not, where could you turn next? What a great invitation for all of us of thinking, okay. I may have interacted in the normal things I typically do every day or the typical professional development opportunities I might have done in the past. The opportunity is like thinking about something that’s totally new, totally different. A little bit of that goes a long way.

David Novak [00:26:03]:
Yeah. You know, I’m challenging people here basically to become know how builders. And the best way that you could learn and be a a a know how builder is when you have a project or initially that you start working on, ask yourself, who can I learn from? Who can I go to? Who can teach me something that I don’t know, that I can apply to what needs to be done? When you when you do that, it’s it’s very powerful. I have a couple of examples of this. You know, Deion Sanders, you know, obviously, the great coach coach prime at at the University of Colorado. But he’s a man of faith, and he posts on x every day something about his beliefs, and I knew that. And I did a podcast with him. And my wife just, you know, had passed away, and I said, what kind of advice could you give me and my daughter on on how to get through the grief and and the loss that we feel right now? And he gave me one of the most inspiring soliloquies on on on the importance of thinking of all the great moments that you had.

David Novak [00:27:12]:
But it was enormously powerful for me, you know, and I shared it with my my daughter. But it was he gave me something that I otherwise would have never had, but I knew enough about him to to get an insight from them that it turned out to be really really relevant for myself and my daughter. But I think no matter what level you’re at, you can always ask yourself, who can I learn from? Who can I go to? Who can help me with this particular issue and give me some know how that will will allow me to get to the best possible solution? And I think that works.

Dave Stachowiak [00:27:52]:
One of the really beautiful things about this book is when you open it up, you see right away the list of all the people you’re going to learn from in the book all the people that have become the tapestry of your relationships in your life and your work David and and that comes together in every single page of all the experiences of these wonderful leaders who have taught you and so many others. And I would imagine going through this process of writing the book and assembling all those ideas and thinking about them and reflecting them and finding the pattern matching that I’m sure was there a ton as you did that. As you reflect on starting to conceptualize what this might look like, and now the book being out in the world and sharing it with others, as you went through that process, what, if anything, have you changed your mind on in how leaders learn?

David Novak [00:28:43]:
Well, I think the biggest thing that I put the tweak on was going from an avid learner to being an active learner. So making sure that it really becomes something that you put to use. But as I was writing this book, I think I realized that sometimes that you could really put the blinders on. You can be so firmly convicted in what you believe that that you really don’t look at other things for for what they might possibly be teaching you. I’m I’m a avid golfer. I’m a purist as a golfer. I I I’ve loved the PGA Tour, and I’ve thought that LIV Golf was pretty much exhibition golf. That’s something I wanted to really spend a lot of time watching, would never really take off, etcetera.

David Novak [00:29:32]:
But the fact is is that they had 94,000 fans in Adelaide, Australia. They they are doing a lot of things that are very different. They’ve created a team golf format. They it’s more casual. They’re trying to attract young people. Now that doesn’t necessarily appeal to me, but what I’ve learned is you shouldn’t put your blinders on ever when you see people who are coming in new and could potentially disrupt the category because you’ll miss out on the the the learning that you have to make maybe your own product a little better. And I don’t know if LivGolf is gonna be that successful or not, But I think if you’re a real learner and you’re in that category, you sure would study it like you couldn’t believe. You would really wanna pay attention to what they’re doing and and and understand what’s working, what’s not, and wha you might be able to apply to your own your own world.

Dave Stachowiak [00:30:33]:
David Novak is the author of How Leaders Learn: Master the Habits of the World’s Most Successful People. David, thank you so much for your leadership and for your work. Really grateful.

David Novak [00:30:43]:
Well, on and back at you, Dave. I love what you do on on the coaching front, and you just do a terrific job. And and it’s an honor to be on this program.

Dave Stachowiak [00:30:58]:
If this conversation was helpful to you, a few related episodes, I’d recommend one of them is episode 612, How to solve the toughest problems. Wendy Smith was my guest on that episode, and we talked about the reality of leadership every day for almost all of us is needing to solve problems. And when we are trying to solve a problem, we tend to get into either or thinking. Do I need to do this or should I do that? Should my team be focused here or should we be focused there? Wendy and her co author, Mary Anne Lewis, invite us to think about both and thinking. Many, many situations, many problems that leaders face can be explored so much more effectively by thinking about the both and. How do we think about where to combine our thinking, the overlaps, the intersections as we talked about today in this conversation with David as well. If you’re in the midst of solving tough problems, Wendy’s advice on episode 612, I think, is a very important starting point. Also, when we’re problem solving, we tend to brainstorm a bit.

Dave Stachowiak [00:32:01]:
Jeremy Utley was my guest on episode 6:30. We talked about better ways to lead brainstorming. A lot of us have been a part of brainstorming sessions at some point in the past, maybe now. Some of us have led them over the years, and we’ve brought a lot of the habits that we’ve seen in what works and what doesn’t around brainstorming. I know I have. And when I read Jeremy’s book, I realized, wow. There’s a lot that I need to rethink and change my mind on around what I think about effective brainstorming and how to do it well. If your organization is utilizing brainstorming as one process for generating ideas, thinking about what’s next, solving problems, innovating, episode 630 is a must listen for you.

Dave Stachowiak [00:32:45]:
Jeremy’s work at Stanford, looking at the research behind generating ideas well, brainstorming so much there that’ll be helpful to you if you’re doing any aspect of that in your work. And then I’d also recommend episode 641, doing better than 0 sum thinking. Renée Mauborgne was my guest on that episode, coauthor of the iconic Bluish and strategy book with W Chan Kim, and the more recent work that they’ve done on nondisruptive creation and thinking about getting out of this mindset that so many of us are in when we think about competing, doing something different of it. If if I win, you need to lose. If I lose, it means someone else is going to win. And she really invites us in the research to look at the opportunity to create in ways that don’t disrupt. And there are so many amazing examples of organizations and even industries that are doing that so well now. Episode 641, if that’s on your mind, a bit of inspiration on how to actually begin.

Dave Stachowiak [00:33:45]:
All of those episodes you can find on the coachingforleaders.com website. One of the biggest challenges I think in leadership is the fact that leadership involves so many different kinds of skills and disciplines to be able to be effective as a leader. This morning, it may be brainstorming. Tomorrow, it’s going to be giving someone feedback. The next day, it’s a strategy discussion. Then it’s talent development. It is so many different kinds of skills that most of us need to at least be decent at in order to lead effectively. It’s one of the reasons that we’ve structured this podcast the way that we have of inviting so many different kinds of experts from different industries and backgrounds to help us all to get better at the broad set of skills that are necessary for so many leaders.

Dave Stachowiak [00:34:36]:
And it’s your guide to that is the free membership. Likely, you know, a couple of areas that would be helpful to you right now. The free membership is where to start. If you set up your free membership at coachingforleaders.com, not only it’s gonna give you access to all of the past episodes in there as you can get on the apps, but it’s gonna give you the opportunity to search by topic. So you can 0 in on what’s most important to you right now. Today’s conversation will be filed under the strategy and innovation sections of the library. We’ve had many other conversations over the years, but also lots of other topics as well. How to run meetings effectively? How to handle conflict? How do you utilize assessments if your organization is doing that? Just about every aspect of leadership we’ve talked about.

Dave Stachowiak [00:35:19]:
You can zero in on the library by going over to coachingforleaders.com and setting up your free membership. And if you’ve used the free membership for a bit, I’m inviting you today to discover more about Coaching for Leaders Plus. It is more support from me, more perspective from me on how to help you practically each week to move forward. And one of the benefits of Coaching for Leaders Plus is a weekly journal entry from me that comes to you on email each week. Often, I’m responding to a question that’s coming from one of our members, or I’m highlighting a key message from one of the guests on a past episode. This past week, it was one of our members asking about what do I say when I can’t say anything? The transition has happened in the organization or something’s happening financially that’s confidential, and people in the organization are asking about a transition or the numbers or whatever is going on that’s sensitive. And we’ve all been in the situation where we can’t really say much about it either because of compliance or legal reasons or ethics. How do you actually handle that situation? What do you say when you can’t say? That was the topic of a recent journal entry.

Dave Stachowiak [00:36:32]:
Some very key things you can do to approach that situation. It’s just one of the many entries that are there weekly from the inside of Coaching for Leaders Plus, plus tons of other resources. For more on that, go over to coachingforleaders.plus. Coaching for Leaders is edited by Andrew Kroeger. Production support is provided by Sierra Priest. Next Monday, I’m glad to have Ruth Gotian back on the show. She is going to be showing us how to be a better mentor. Join me for that conversation with Ruth, and I’ll see you back on Monday.