686: How to Benefit from a Chief of Staff, with Laurie Arron

Dave Stachowiak [00:00:00]:
Executive leaders need both truth tellers and those who can manage on their behalf. Increasingly, the chief of staff role is becoming more prominent. In this episode, the role of a chief of staff, the value they add, and how they benefit the entire team. This is Coaching for Leaders, episode 686. Production Credit: Produced by Innovate Learning, maximizing human potential.

Dave Stachowiak [00:00:32]:
Greetings to you from Orange County, California. This is Coaching for Leaders, and I’m your host, Dave Stachowiak. Leaders aren’t born, they’re made. And this weekly show helps you discover leadership wisdom through insightful conversations. If your experience has been anything like mine, you have heard the title chief of staff a lot more in recent years than maybe it did in the past. And I think many of us have a bit of a opinion about what does the title chief of staff mean, but we don’t necessarily think about it through the lens of today’s organization. And how can leaders best use a chief of staff and when can a chief of staff really help to shape the priorities of an organization and a leader? Today, I’m so glad to welcome someone who’s such an expert in this space, will help us to do a better job of thinking about how we can leverage this role so well.

Dave Stachowiak [00:01:28]:
I’m so pleased to welcome Laurie Aaron. She is the founder of Aaron Coaching and trusted adviser and executive coach to c suite executives and chiefs of staff. She spent 30 plus years climbing the corporate ladder at a fortune 10 company in sales leadership, strategic planning, and business transformation. She has also served as a chief of staff to senior executives. She’s the author of Who Has Your Back: A Leader’s Guide to Getting the Support You Need from the Chief of Staff You Deserve. Laurie, what a pleasure to have you here.

Laurie Arron [00:01:59]:
Oh, thank you, Dave. I’m so happy to be here. Let’s talk about one of my favorite topics.

Dave Stachowiak [00:02:03]:
Yeah. And when I came across your work, I thought, boy, I’d really love to talk with you because I have heard the title chief of staff way more in the last few years than I ever did before. And when I saw your book, I thought there’s a lot I need to learn about the role. And when I read the book, I thought I had a lot of misconceptions about it.

Dave Stachowiak [00:02:29]:
Before we get into some of those misconceptions, I’m curious. Is it just me or is this a role, a title that we’re seeing a lot more now in organizations than we used to?

Laurie Arron [00:02:40]:
You’re absolutely seeing a lot more of them now than you used to. It isn’t a new role. Ironically, it’s been around for many, many, many years. It stems back to military days, Roman days. But in terms of the numbers of chiefs of staff, now they have more than doubled in the last 20 years in private businesses, and it’s a very misunderstood role. I I think it might even make sense to just demystify it a little bit as we get going here. The reason that it’s very misunderstood is that no 2 chiefs of staff are the same. They are really reflective of the leader that they support.

Laurie Arron [00:03:21]:
And just as leaders are unique, so are chiefs of staff. While today’s dialogue will help us string together the similarities that chiefs have and how they best serve their leaders, it is important to know that there’s not a huge peer structure. They really are individually representing the leader that they serve, and that may be the reason for some of the misconception and people who misunderstand the role. But today, what you should know is that chiefs of staff are really considered senior executives. They’re responsible for managing the day to day operations and priorities of the senior leader or the CEO or any c suite executive. They’re often seen as a trusted adviser. Their main priority is the executive’s agenda, and implementing that agenda and initiatives and coordinating that within the company. So in many ways, they’re seen as a strategic partner.

Laurie Arron [00:04:20]:
They have a wide range of responsibilities, everything from project management to strategic planning and facilitating consistent communications, both inside of the company and their leaders’ external presence. And my goodness, they also represent their leader in meetings when he or she can’t be present. So it’s quite a powerful role, and it’s also very prominent in certain sectors over others. So for example, lots you’re gonna see a lot of chiefs of staff in the tech sector. There are many in the finance sector, health care, and then you may not see them in other industries. Let me pause right there and just now that we sort of set the stage for what it is, is that helpful?

Dave Stachowiak [00:05:07]:
It is. And you’ve already spoken to this a bit, I think. But I know this perception’s out there, and I’ve had a bit of this perception before too of sometimes thinking about a chief of staff as a glorified executive assistant, and yet they really are different roles. Could you paint the distinction between those two roles?

Laurie Arron [00:05:30]:
Yes. I’d love to. And it is a very common thing that people believe when they don’t know truly what a chief of staff does. They they actually think that it is a promotion from an executive assistant, and it’s actually not. I would start to answer the question this way. They are both critical roles to the leader. They both serve a distinct purpose, and they’re different purposes. For example, both the chief of staff and the EA support the senior leader in terms of scope and responsibility.

Laurie Arron [00:06:04]:
The EA, however, is typically handling more logistics and administrative tasks, like scheduling or correspondence, certainly travel arrangements. They’re really managing that executive’s day to day so that it runs smoothly. And in contrast to that, the chief of staff takes on a more strategic and more operational role. They may be managing or leading projects. They’re absolutely coordinating alignment and cross functional teams. They’re driving key initiatives and certainly managing the progress of key initiatives that are tied to the company mission. So they they serve in more of a strategic advisor, problem solver, problem averter type role. They also have decision making authority.

Laurie Arron [00:06:59]:
They will often be in a meeting as a proxy and drive a decision on behalf of their leader. So they’re less logistical. They’re less administrative and organizational, although those are very important support elements. And they work together in service of the leader. In fact, one of the CEOs I had the honor of supporting at AT and T said to me, and I quote, you are my right hand. My EA is my left hand. You’re like wings of a plane, and you’re both critical to my success. And so from there, you know, you fly and you soar.

Laurie Arron [00:07:35]:
And I thought it was a really good framework for how important the two roles are to serve the leader. They are not the same really in any way. And it’s very important that the relationships and chemistry between them, all three of them, are top notch.

Dave Stachowiak [00:07:53]:
You write in the book on this point, “a great executive assistant can block your calls, move your appointments, and allow you to breathe. A great chief of staff has the extra superpower of representing you managing on your behalf and coordinating your work.” And that phrase, managing on your behalf, really Yep. Struck with me. That’s a key distinction between an EA and a chief of staff.

Laurie Arron [00:08:17]:
It absolutely is. And one of the things I talk about briefly in the book is the importance of having a handshake meeting as you get started working if you’re the leader, if you get started working with a chief of staff, it’s very important to set the stage and talk about and agree on how are we going to work together to really ignite this magical relationship for the sake of the impact that we can drive together for this firm or for this mission. And the handshake meeting is something I equate to sort of like, you know, in a personal life, marriage vows. Right? It’s the it’s the professional version of marriage vows. How are we gonna communicate with each other? How are we gonna make decisions together or independently? How are we going to problem solve? How are we going to delegate? How are we going to approach conflict together? And I think it’s really important to have a handshake meeting, certainly at the beginning of a relationship, but also throughout the relationship to keep it working. So not to go too deep on that here for your listeners, but to even at a high level, understand the importance of communication and setting expectations as one begins to work with a chief of staff.

Dave Stachowiak [00:09:29]:
It kinda lends itself to one of the reasons I think you you really wrote this book is to illuminate some of this because the thing that I, really struck me immediately when I saw the book and learned about your work is thinking there’s just not much out there on this and this relationship. And I that’s part of the motivator for why you wrote this book. Right?

Laurie Arron [00:09:52]:
Well, it really is. And I I appreciate the question. I often hear leaders who have read the book will call me or email me, say, why did you write this? And the truth is, Dave, I wrote the book that I never had when I began chiefing myself. Like, it just wasn’t out there. There is there is stuff in the market that talks about where did the chief of staff title come from and sort of the clinical or the academic conversation around a chief of staff. But there was no playbook that said, here’s how you do this, and here’s where you find great chiefs, and here’s how you ignite that relationship. And, you know, I needed that on day 1. This is not a role that is a training ground.

Laurie Arron [00:10:33]:
You need to come in and hit the ground running. The bottom line is I wrote the book that I never had.

Dave Stachowiak [00:10:40]:
And I think it’s thinking about this from a leadership standpoint because this book is very much written to, like, the leader who’s either working with the chief of staff or maybe needs a chief of staff or maybe the relationship isn’t quite there, isn’t quite ideal yet. And you really do frame this thinking about how can a chief really help in the best possible way. And one of the indicators both that you may need a chief or that a chief can really help with is the time that a leader is that that that a leader’s time is just totally unmanaged. When you see that, what does it look like, and when is an indicator that someone like a chief of staff really could help?

Laurie Arron [00:11:28]:
Yes. And in the book, I frame 4 meta problems or most common problems that leaders face and how a chief of staff can help. And you’re referring to one of them, which is my time is completely unmanaged. So how would that feel to a leader? It is having no control over your calendar. It’s controlling you. You’re very reactive to what your day includes. You are late for things. You are working chaotically from issue to issue to issue that is coming your way.

Laurie Arron [00:12:02]:
You may be spending a lot of time on things that are far too detailed into the minutiae of the business when you should be working strategic priorities or worrying about the business tomorrow versus running it today. So there’s a million ways to illuminate how is that painful, but it’s chaotic. I have seen it over and over and over again, and time is not something any of us can get back. So when a chief of staff comes into the mix, one of the things I’ve seen chiefs of staff do very, very well is to look at and assess, how is my leader spending his or her time? And is this representative of where their zone of genius is? Do we have he or she spending their time doing the things that are most valuable to the firm or a most valuable use of their time. And, there’s almost always an opportunity to improve. And I’ve seen chiefs do masterful things by either taking over the calendar completely or operating with the 4 d’s, do it, delegate it, defer it, dismiss it. I’ve seen many of my CEOs will adopt a principle called time blocking. This is something chiefs used often, where you block out your calendar to do the thing that is most important for the period of time that you need to work on it, and then you move on.

Laurie Arron [00:13:25]:
And you don’t string that same segment doesn’t show up later in the week to do the same thing. You literally block out the time. You do it from beginning to end, and then you move on. It’s beautiful and simple. So time management, although it seems very obvious, is actually one of the biggest things leaders struggle with, and chiefs of staff can be masterful at helping with that.

Dave Stachowiak [00:13:50]:
In a way, it’s obvious, but it’s also so foundational. Right? I’m struck by how often I run into senior leaders in my work that say some version of I know what I need to be doing. That’s really clear to me, like, where my strengths are, what the role is, the big picture stuff I should be doing at altitude. And yet, I I cannot find in my calendar 2 hours to sit down and actually focus on that. And there’s something powerful about you can do that yourself, but it takes a lot of cognitive energy and load to, like, say no to block the time. Having someone else who’s not you, who’s more objective to, like, actually be able to intervene to frame that to clear up the time, it can be really powerful.

Laurie Arron [00:14:37]:
It can be so powerful. And I’m thinking about a time when I was teething for for one of my leaders who felt the need to get involved in things as there was a particular scenario happening at the time and wanted very much to get into the minutiae of the decision and really understand the context of what was happening. And I knew that was not the best use of his time, nor did he need to have that level of involvement. And so I very, you know, appropriately reminded him that his he could best serve this company by focusing at a higher level on that particular initiative, trusting the team, and letting the work get done. And what I offered him at the time was several different touch points with me so he could have updates on the progress of the team in a way that met his needs, but he didn’t have to dump everything and give the topic 2 hours of his day. And so we worked our way toward that, and it worked out beautifully. But I think a lot of leaders fall into the minutiae unintentionally because that’s where their comfort zone is, because they don’t necessarily have the tools to teach them otherwise. And I think that’s where the chief comes in, to hold the space for them to do that thing that might feel uncomfortable and then serve them.

Laurie Arron [00:15:51]:
It’s kinda like training wheels. Right? Let me walk you or ride you in this direction, give you the updates you need so at some point, you don’t need the updates.

Dave Stachowiak [00:16:00]:
We had an episode recently with Ty Wiggins who coaches a lot of new CEOs, and one of the things that he pointed out in that conversation is that how rare it is to have a truth teller when you’re the top person in the top role and when you find that person to, like, really latch on to them. And the topic of loneliness comes up a lot when we think about senior leaders and top leaders. Of course, they’re surrounded by people all the time, but they often don’t have a truth teller. And you say in in the book in referring to the chief of staff, they are the only person at your company whose explicit role is to be absolutely upfront with you at all times and in all ways. And I think about that, and I’m wondering how does a leader set up that expectation and create the space where the chief is the person who’s willing and ready to do that?

Laurie Arron [00:17:00]:
Number 1, they need to make sure that they hire for that quality. You, as a leader, wanna hire someone who you you visibly see and feel in the course of an interview have the capability to take agency. And you have to develop the trust between the 2 of you and invite the truth. I had one leader say to me, you know, I want you in my kitchen, which means, like, you’re the one who in the kitchen is gonna tell me the truth that I need. I cannot run this company unless I have people like you in the kitchen telling me what I won’t necessarily be told by others. Now let’s let’s state the obvious here. I am certainly hopeful that the only person telling a CEO the truth is not the chief of staff. I hope that there’s a full team of people who feel they can represent the truth to the leader.

Laurie Arron [00:17:51]:
That being said, the chief of staff must do it and must do it in a way that honors confidentiality, honors the trust of the others on the team, but knows how to bring something to the table that will enable that leader to lead differently, lead more powerfully, make an effective decision, etcetera, etcetera. They know how to do that. And I think when I see these relationships work really well is because that is part of the agreement. In fact, it happens at the Handshake meeting, that it is expected. 1 of my leaders coined me when I was chiefing for him. He said, you are my compassionate truth teller is what he said to me. You’re a compassionate truth teller. And what he meant was, you have the ability to tell me the truth, but you kinda do it in a love bubble.

Laurie Arron [00:18:39]:
You’re really thinking about the way that this feedback would land with me so that I can receive it versus potentially resist it. And I was taken aback by that at the beginning, but in essence, it’s the right thing. Right? Sharing feedback, telling the truth in a way that is that is packaged in a way that the leader will receive it and absorb it and, most importantly, act on it.

Dave Stachowiak [00:19:02]:
You mentioned in the book an example from the TV show West Wing of the character the character Leo McGarry and, portrayed by John Spencer, one of the most brilliant character portrayals of of recent memory. And I just happened to go back last night and watch 1 a couple of the, episodes, snippets of Leo McGarry and Jeb Bartlett. And it’s fictional, but it’s an incredible powerful example of exactly what you described. Like, the trust, the absolute dedication that he has to his role, and yet at the same time, a both end, being able to get in his face and to speak the truth really clearly, and it’s just a perfect combination of what you described.

Laurie Arron [00:19:54]:
Yeah. It is, and there’s a balance. I think great chiefs know that there’s a balance between advocacy and inquiry. It isn’t about advocating for what the chief wants the leader to do. It is often through the lens of inquiry that you can ascertain what is the best decision for the firm, what needs to happen here for the business. And to drive that conversation, balancing advocacy, that felt important to say. And, again, it’s also very foundational that it must be set up at the Handshake meeting, that we together are gonna have to have difficult conversations. How do we want that to be dealt with? How do you want feedback? Do you want it quickly? Do you want me to set up space for it? Do you want me to set the table? Do you want me to be direct? Do you want whatever it is, inquire what would serve the leader best and cater that truth telling what they need.

Laurie Arron [00:20:50]:
That’s what effective chiefs do.

Dave Stachowiak [00:20:52]:
Yeah. And the key distinction I’m hearing there is it’s not that the chief wants their agenda. It’s that the chief wants the leader’s agenda to come out. And by giving that feedback, having those tough conversations, doing that in a way that works well for that leader, that’s really the driving force behind this.

Laurie Arron [00:21:10]:
100%. Look very simply, the chief of staff’s agenda is 100% to serve that leader’s agenda and the business mission, period. Full stop. Certainly, they’ll be asked for their perspective. I mean, they’re hired into the role to be a trusted adviser and a strategic partner to the leader. So they’re always going to be sharing their 2¢. They’re dot connectors. They see things across leadership teams and functions in ways no one else can do because they just don’t have that view.

Laurie Arron [00:21:44]:
But at the end of the day, they are there to serve the mission. And so whatever they’re advocating for or whatever feedback needs to be delivered, it should be in crisp alignment with what’s most important to drive the business forward.

Dave Stachowiak [00:21:58]:
One of the other places you surface that leaders can really use a chief of staff well is when they find that their team is spending more time solving problems than preventing them and you write “at the core a chief of staff is a proactive individual.” What is it that’s so critical about that in this role?

Laurie Arron [00:22:21]:
When I see chiefs operating at their peak, they’re always 2 steps ahead of their leader, or they’re 2 steps ahead of a potential problem surfacing. When I see them do their job masterfully, things are dealt with at the level of 10 before it becomes a level a 100.

Dave Stachowiak [00:22:40]:
Mhmm.

Laurie Arron [00:22:40]:
And and that’s not easy to do, but but it can be Dave. And it requires a chief to be spending their time proactively looking around the corner, looking under the rocks to make sure that things are dealt with before they become a problem or put a big initiative in jeopardy, for example. Now that takes time, and I think chiefs really need to invest in themselves to understand, you know, where do I need to spend my time? What is most important? Where do I sense there may be bad weather? And where are things humming smoothly? A smart chief of staff will take the time to assess that and then direct their energy accordingly. But too often, I will see wonderful teams be spending way too much time solving problems, and that is not I just don’t think that that is the most effective way to lead. And if we can leverage the chief of staff to be a problem averter, to go sniff things out proactively and prevent things from slowing us down, then that is a great use of a chief of staff’s time. And I think that should also be set up in the interview process. That is what this role is being designed for. And that’s how you get a full ROI out of the role.

Laurie Arron [00:23:55]:
Look. Nobody’s gonna turn their their cheek to a problem solver. We all need good problem solvers. But what are you making space for when you avert problems? That’s how to think about that.

Dave Stachowiak [00:24:10]:
Yeah. And it’s just the nature of being in a senior role that you’re going to miss stuff and be blind to things and people aren’t gonna tell you stuff and the old story of the emperor’s new clothes. Right? There’s some aspect of that that happens in almost every organization. And so, ideally, the chief of staff can see where the message is getting lost, where the connection isn’t happening, where the blind spots are, and and surfaces that proactively to the leader.

Laurie Arron [00:24:46]:
Yes. And I I have a an example of that that I think works really beautifully. And, again, it was one of the leaders I did not key for him, but I got to witness him doing this at my previous in my corporate role, and I thought it was beautiful. So the punch line you’re talking about is that there are oftentimes around leaders way too many yes people. Yes. Yes. Yes. You know, leader talks about something at a meeting, and before you know it, 15 people are acting on it.

Laurie Arron [00:25:12]:
But it really wasn’t even intended that way. So that can happen. And, oftentimes, the real truth, the gory truth doesn’t make it to the leader. They get some other higher altitude headline that doesn’t really serve the context the leader needs to lead effectively. And so one of the things I witnessed one of our our leaders do that I thought was brilliant is at the end of every meeting, a big important meeting about an initiative, about big priority, he would invite the last 10 minutes of the meeting, he would invite the contrarian point of view, and he would do it very deliberately. No. For the next 10 minutes, we’re gonna go beat up why what we’re about to go do is the wrong thing. Let me invite why what we’re about to go say yes to isn’t going to work, And I’m gonna give everybody agency for the next 10 minutes to literally show up and beat it up.

Laurie Arron [00:26:03]:
And that really expanded the dialogue around the table. It enabled the leaders to stretch their thinking, knowing that it was really safe to do that. That was the 10 minutes, 15 minutes, whatever, to get that out. And the company, that particular team ended up making, in some cases, a very different decision. But that wouldn’t have happened unless the time was created to do that. And so it’s just one of the ways to care for having yes people or having the true the full truth not make it to the leader is that you create a segment or create space for that dialogue to take place. And, of course, a chief of staff can orchestrate that beautifully. And what I love is when I see it everywhere.

Laurie Arron [00:26:48]:
You know, we’re not just gonna do it for our big decisions, but we’re gonna invite it into the hygiene and the fabric of how we run this business, that it shows up everywhere because there’s no, downside in doing that.

Dave Stachowiak [00:26:59]:
I’m thinking about what you said a few minutes ago that, yes, the chief of staff absolutely needs to be the truth teller. Right? And ideally, there’s also a lot of other people in the organization who are doing that as well. And one of the real gifts that a chief of staff can do is to cultivate that climate That that happens not just with the chief, but other people on the team. And I’m curious when you see chiefs do this well, that and they’re not it’s not just them and the leader having that kind of truth telling, but it’s happening throughout the larger team and organization. What is it they do? What is it that them and the leader do to really set that up?

Laurie Arron [00:27:41]:
You know what I one of the things I pride myself on at my core, I’m a relationship builder. I love to build trust and and relationships, and that takes time and intention. And what I always say to new chiefs and leaders that I work with is send your chief on a roadshow, virtually or whatever. Make sure that they set aside time to truly get to know the senior leaders on this team and what their agenda is and establish trust. At the very beginning. Have that handshake meeting with each of those leaders. And make sure that each of those leaders understand the role of the chief is to ignite that team, serve the leader, serve the mission, but not to go around the other leaders or to prioritize one over another. They’re there to create the symphony, the orchestra, and that’s when teams So, you know, really effective chiefs, certainly in their second 6 months of their role or even the 3rd 6 months of their role, they’re igniting each of the leaders around that table to reach their fullest expression of leadership and service of the mission.

Laurie Arron [00:28:48]:
They’re getting to know those leaders in a way that invites them all into the kitchen. And so practically speaking, Dave, what that might look like is working with one of the leaders saying, hey. I know this is a really big this particular decision is a really big decision to you. I’m sensing it’s not going to go the way I know you would like it to go. Let’s talk about that, and let’s be present to what’s important to you so that when we have this meeting with the leader, we can do fill in the blank, x, y, and z. That simple heads up enables that leader to prepare for a dialogue that he or she might not have been able to prepare for had they not had the heads up. And the heads up is trust. So what a chief is doing is stringing together the most productive dialogues possible.

Laurie Arron [00:29:35]:
And that’s one of the ways they can ignite the performance of the team. They just see what’s needed. In fact, Dave, I built a scorecard for my chiefs that reflects that allows them to reflect on how much of their time are they spending in a proactive way, and how much of their time are they spending reactively because something happened to the business that they need to go deal with. Mhmm. And when they really look at that from time to time and they see how much of my time am I spending proactively. It’s like the example I just gave. I’m out there working with one of the other leaders to make sure that I’m preparing them for something so they can have an awesome dialogue with our leader versus them going to that meeting and being surprised and the conversation potentially falling flat. That’s what a great chief of staff is thinking on, and that’s proactive.

Dave Stachowiak [00:30:23]:
Yeah. And I’m guessing a big component of this too is what the leader says who has the chief to others in the organization about their relationship with their chief of staff and how that person represents them. What is it that’s important for leaders to articulate about the their chief of staff to other stakeholders?

Laurie Arron [00:30:46]:
Well, it’s a really important point you’re making, and one of the things I insist on when I work with leaders and chiefs is that they absolutely properly launch the role. And what does that mean? That means they are specifically describing to the leadership team what the chief why the chief was hired, what the chief is is there to do, and how they will be working with the chief for the greater good. It’s almost I like to say set the table. Set the table for this relationship to soar. And if you don’t set it up to SOAR, people flounder. They don’t know how to work with this chief, and it isn’t explained to them. So not only do I insist that that happen, I often write or craft a draft of that launch letter for my leaders so that they can personalize it or edit it as they see fit, but that they set themselves up for success. So it’s absolutely critical that they do that.

Laurie Arron [00:31:43]:
And then, again, sending the chief on a bit of a roadshow to meet with each of the leaders, have their handshake meeting, and establish together what is possible for this team. I think that’s all very, very important. It’s it’s no secrets. It’s operating with trust and transparency. And and, frankly, the chief is usually what the data says is is the chief is usually in the role for about 18 months. After 18 months, they’re off getting promoted or running a line of business, running a p and l. They’re they’re off doing something else. Sometimes they become the COO.

Laurie Arron [00:32:15]:
It can be a lot of different things. But maximizing that work and the possibilities for the team in that 18 months are up to the team, and setting it up for success is absolutely essential.

Dave Stachowiak [00:32:28]:
You write at the beginning of the book that “if you’re on a plane and taking off from New York, you will be done with the book before you land in Chicago.” And. I’m

Laurie Arron [00:32:37]:
Tallking to my ceos right.

Dave Stachowiak [00:32:39]:
Yeah, you are and I really appreciate how concise the book is I mean I did the almost the entire book in one sitting, and there’s a lot here. And we’re not covering intentionally some of the other pieces here that are how to hire, how to identify, how to get onboarded. So for folks who are hearing this and are thinking either I have a chief of staff and we don’t quite have this tune perfectly yet, or I’m thinking about this, or I’m in the process of of redefining this role and bringing someone on. I think it’s an essential guide for you, so I hope folks will pick it up. And, Laurie, as I’m thinking about everything you’ve said, I’ve got one other question. As you have had this book out now and have lots of people reaching out to you and utilizing this framework. I’m curious what, if anything, since the book has come out and you’ve started talking with people about it that you’ve changed your mind on?

Laurie Arron [00:33:33]:
I know. I I would say this, that a lot of times, it’s easy to know what needs to be done. But I think we, as humans, certainly me, I will often fall into a space where I overanalyze or even make something more complex than it needs to be because I wanna get it right or I wanna serve the leader or perfect something before it goes out the door. And while those things are all well intended, and that’s certainly not something that is shameful, What I’ve learned or what I’ve changed my mind on is is very Ryan Holiday. It’s it’s just the best way to get something started is just to start and literally take the next indicated action. Pick up the pen. Start writing the book. Pick up the phone.

Laurie Arron [00:34:20]:
Go schedule the meeting. Write the outline for what it is that needs to be done. Just take action. And to me, that that has changed my life. It’s changed the way I serve my leaders. It’s changed the way I support leaders and chiefs of staff. It’s changed how I run my own business. I don’t get stuck in the minutiae anymore, and I don’t make things more complex than they need to be.

Laurie Arron [00:34:43]:
In fact, I have this little button right next to my computer, and it it’s one of those easy buttons. I ask myself, what would this thing in front of me, what would it look like? What would I go do if it was easy? And it snaps my mind into gear, and I automatically start thinking about 10 things I could do to get it started. And, look, that’s just setting an intention. Just just do it. Nike, just do it.

Dave Stachowiak [00:35:06]:
Lauro Arron is the author of Who Has Your Back?: A Leader’s Guide to Getting the Support You Need from the Chief of Staff You Deserve. Laurie, thank you so much for your work.

Laurie Arron [00:35:15]:
Thank you, Dave. It’s an honor to be with you and your listeners.

Dave Stachowiak [00:35:24]:
If this conversation was helpful, 3 related episodes I’d recommend to you. 1 of them is episode 597, how to help people speak truth to power. Megan Reitz was my guest on that episode. We talked in this episode with Laurie about the importance of leaders having a truth teller and the chief of staff that being such a critical part of the job and it’s also incumbent upon the leader to create a space and expectations to make it easier for everyone to speak truth to power. Megan and I talked about that in episode 597, looked at her research and some of the practical things that leaders can do to do that better. Also recommended episode 635, how to start better with peers. Michael Bungay Stanier was my guest on that episode, author of The Coaching Habit, and his more recent book Looking at How to Have the Best Possible Relationship. We heard from Laurie about the handshake conversation between a leader and a chief of staff.

Dave Stachowiak [00:36:22]:
Michael and I in episode 635 broadened that conversation and looked at not only from peers, but starting a relationship with anyone, especially in the professional space. How to do that? His framework so helpful for beginning that and leaning in so you have those conversations about expectations upfront. And then, of course, the last week’s episode, 685, how to start a top job. Ty Wiggins was my guest, and we talked about some of the ways to start well, the importance of hearing truth, many echoes of this conversation as well. If you hadn’t you haven’t heard it already, an important compliment to this conversation. All of those episodes, of course, you can find on the coachingforleaders.com website. I’m inviting you to set up your free membership at coachingforleaders.com if you haven’t already because it’ll give you access to the entire library of episodes that I’ve aired since 2011. And you can search by topics.

Dave Stachowiak [00:37:16]:
You can find what’s most immediately relevant to you. But in addition to that, there’s a ton of other benefits inside of the free membership. And one of those benefits is access to all my interview and book notes. When I was reading Laurie’s book, I went through and highlighted a ton, and then I curated the most key highlights paragraphs that I think are key for you to know about and reflect on. I also integrated them into my interview notes. Some of those things we hit on in this conversation. Some of them we didn’t have time for, but they’re all available to you as part of your free membership to download, not only on this episode, but every past episode in recent years. It’s just one of the many benefits inside of free membership.

Dave Stachowiak [00:37:55]:
To activate your free membership, go over to coachingforleaders.com, and you can set it up right away. And it’s free. So it’s pretty easy to get access immediately. And if you already have your free membership, I would invite you also to explore Coaching for Leaders Plus. It is a way to take the next step on insight and the connections and personal relationships that we’re having inside of our community and hear some of those conversations in-depth. Every single month, I’m inviting a past guest who’s been on the podcast into a conversation with some of our academy and pro members for something we call an expert chat. And most recently, Kwami Christian was our guest for that conversation. We sat down with him for an hour and had a conversation about finding confidence in conflict.

Dave Stachowiak [00:38:42]:
Many of you also follow Kwami’s work. He’s been on the podcast several times over the years as a dear friend and as the director of the American Negotiation Institute and also the host of the Negotiate Anything podcast. We had a lively conversation for an hour about real situations happening in the workplace. How do we handle conflict? How do we negotiate well? That recording plus all of our past expert chat recordings are available to you as part of Coaching for Leaders Plus. To find out more, go over to coachingforleaders.plus to access that and all the other benefits inside of Coaching for Leaders Plus. Coaching for Leaders is edited by Andrew Kroeger. Production support is provided by Sierra Priest. I’ll be back this coming Monday for our next conversation about leadership.

Dave Stachowiak [00:39:30]:
Have a great week, and thanks as always for the privilege to support you.